Do you think we need female units and commanders in the game

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

No, its not dark motives. AI are the pinacle of logic. An example.

AI are not mind readers, humans have all sorts of tricks for divining what a fellow human is thinking and how they are going to act and react. This is based off of many things, a major part is simple experience when dealing with other humans. Another part is that we are sensitive to body language, subtle changes in the eyes, and face, and we have neurons that allow us to simulate what another person is doing/experiencing.

AI have none of this.

A human walks up to an AI and for whatever reason, punches it in the nose. The AI has a utility function that states it is not to be punched in the nose. Instead of defending itself, or leaving, the AI will first take a step to the left.

AI are not mind readers, they do not have the shortcuts and tricks we have for easily interacting and predicting the actions of other humans. Obviously we know stepping to the left wont stop the AI from being punched, but the AI does not.

Eventually the AI could conclude, if humans dont stop punching it, that humans have a utility function that instructs them to punch AI in the nose. Obviously this function is incompatible with the AI's, therefore one of them must go. The AI will then proceed to work out how to wipe out all humans in the most efficient manner possible, so it can go back to not being punched in the nose as fast as it can.

Thats how alien AI are.

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

Voligne I agree that AI is different and alien. My point is that you have the fact that the "AI" is actually a HUMAN PLAYER, so we design units around that.

An unarguable example here is that Uber is making sure the unit design is readable and easy to identify from a distance. So they stick these funky big shoulders on the Delta Commander, not because of any in-game lore reason, but because a human player needs to control the unit.

So on the one hand we design units around the human eye.. but on the other hand you want to argue we should ignore human psychology and emotions because the in-game lore calls for a brutal efficient war machine?

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

OOC the player is human, yes. IC the player is an AI.

If you want to design 'feminine' commanders, there is nothing stopping you once the game is released. I dont really understand this concern with how feminine or masculine the commanders look, to me they look like robots.

Why exactly, is this even a problem for you? Why is human psychology even entering in to this? How in Gods glorious name did we even get here?

I dunno, all I know is that uber is going to design commanders that look cool, and you seem to think they need to be women, I dont think they need to be anything other than cool looking, menacing killing machines.

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

The AI is AI. I am just playing supreme being and controlling all that is mine.

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

I think that is what is awesome about PA. It is chilling that the last legacy of something as varied as humanity is a cold unrelenting and destructive force focused only on destruction.

Humans did. “The age of humanity is long past” all that is left are the autonomous commander machines that are left behind. The way I see it we designed the commanders to run our armies and eventually humans on all faction sides were wiped out and our commanders were better at surviving the war than our feeble flesh. And yes something had to create and design them, but last I checked modern military hardware didn’t have feminine or masculine aspects to them because of the person who designed them. Helicopters, tanks, guns, missiles, ships, none of them are gendered in their design.People designed them, but they were designed with function in mind. Not an extension of that particular person personality or gender.

Yes, but that doesn’t instantly mean feminine. It can be applied to animals too. hawks, predatory cats, sharks and so on.

But they aren’t all going to be humanoid. It has already been discussed that we may be looking at quadruped commanders and the like.

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

Haha.. it's not a problem. I'm just pushing back against those are all like 'raah no they're robots no gender allowed!', which is, imho, needlessly limiting the design palette.

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

We arent saying its not allowed, we are asking 'why' this needs to be. That the opposition has not come up with a good reason is telling.

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

That why as Pawz pointed out is the player's natural tendency to apply human-like attributes to everything... even if those things aren't at all human.

Touche!

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

Okay. This is an RTS not an RPG like Skyrim where you make characters you get attached to. It's about managing units and out thinking your opponents as you deploy your resources as effeciently as possible. I can understand customization and with the different commanders announced that is emphasized to a degree. But why would anyone worry about gendered virtual automated bits of metal? You can't make the case of appealing to a female audience or in order to relate to the units can you? If someone, wether they are male or female, likes rts games, I would imagine it is the gameplay aspect they would worry about the most rather than being able to relate to their army of gigantic robots of mass destruction. The RTS genre isn't really one focused on relating to in game units after all.

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

I don't think robots have a gender. Why should we associate genders with faceless death machines?

Also, has anyone else realized how much this thread relates to the OP's name?

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

In game everything was designed with function in mind, and is simply programmed to continue the war until the enemy is destroyed.

There is nothing masculine or feminine about this. Everything is pure distilled carnage and destruction without emotion or true concern.

Trying to force femininity in where even masculinity is rejected is just going to make people scream sexist.

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

I think if you look at games like TA and Supcom, you can see how people really gravitated towards one commander or the other. With Uber's promotion of several different commanders, not to mention 100 different custom commanders, AND the ability to mod & play with your OWN commander, I don't see why it's such a stretch to realize that people will relate to a particular commander more strongly than others, and that male / female traits can enhance this.

And frankly, being male, I often prefer playing as female characters. I'm not arguing this for the sake of appealing to my wife. I suspect she may pick the beefiest commander out there - she did like playing as the berserker in Borderlands 1 & 2.

At the end of the day, if Uber comes out with a commander that looks awesome and has nice curves in the right places, I doubt anyone here would really complain.

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

So you are arguing for female commanders so you can be in your bunk? I see.

I have never seen players gravitate to any particular commander.

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

In SupCom, I took a liking towards Cybran because they were the classic underdog good-guy. I'm a sucker for that.

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

Also Chest Mazor.

Mike

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

Cybran were insane terrorists. With brains in a jar.

Yes, you can dismiss my entire argument by shouting "BOOBZ4TEHWIN"

I mean, that's what TA stood for, wasn't it... :roll:

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

There were entirely different pools of units within each faction, and seperate ideologies and lore. Of course people have preferences, but to boil it down to the fact that there were different commanders is very simplistic and doesn't capture the whole picture. I for one picked based on ideology rather than commander appearance.

Different commanders? yes, variety? yes, shoehorning things in for the sake of having them? no. You are creating a straw-man by equating the use of female traits with a desire to have variety, and not wanting gender as a desire to stifle variety. This is a false dichotomy. You could make the same argument for chocolate commanders, bunny rabbit commanders, horse commanders and I would argue in the same fashion because they make no sense within the aesthetic of the game. Give me an example of a female trait that would make sense to have in a combat oriented robot.

You could have commanders which take their design cues from many various animals which would probably make a lot more sense than a human female. We already are seeing variety in Commanders that are completely independent of gender.

It is not about appealing to one gender or another. It is about what makes sense in terms of the game aesthetic and what little exposition we have been provided with. It does not make sense to have Female and male robots in a game with self replicating soulless calculating death machines. And frankly, wouldn't genderless Commanders be more likely to have a more universal appeal regardless of the gender of the person playing them?

I think you underestimate what people will complain about.

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

I want a Cat Commander!

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

I was impressed by this. They're really subtle changes, but they look the part. Reminds me of the girly Halo armours; not scantily clad to an impractical degree, but enough to note the gender of the person behind the helmet.

Re: Do you think we need female units and commanders in the

Commanders aren't there to do weight lifting. Or any difficult physical performances where you need muscle power. They are there to command an army. Therefore, it does not matter the slightest bit are they more masculine or more feminine.