Do we need naval?

Just include navy, ffs why would you poll for less unit variety?
No need to make compromises on game design because you are worried about other unit types not being made. They can simply make thruster based units, for planetary objects without atmospheres. No need to make it overly complicated. Removing the navy would be taking away from the original feel of TA and SC.
I am sure I am not the only one who enjoyed building a navy.

Still, the idea of fast navel units isn't far out enough to completely dismiss naval. Give the fast naval units a hydrodynamic design, a slower acceleration/deceleration time, and a bad *** looking wake effect, and they're plenty grounded in reality.

It depends on what you want to do. If we go with "just 1-2 more units", we are getting really fast in situations which can't be done, so we have to make another unit, if we want to make it happen. And now we have "navy".

i.e. with amph. units. do we want to: artillery strike, landing party? They are different roles. When you want to invade from water you need similar units in capabilities like land units. So make new ones, or transport land units, OR make them levitate, with some restrictions in speed etc.. The balance is already made, they are the same units, but behave differently above different ground. I think it can be easier. So you don't have to make spider legged ships.

If you want to land, you need AA, long rang artillery, transport. With anti-grav you can make it super easy with land units without transports, and you can use them on land too, but nerfed.

The easiest is the transport with 1-2 cover units, but the enemy's long range artillery (with AA) gonna be a problem. I can live with that.
// btw. with the tech lvls, they can grow to 6-8...

I've never been huge on naval, but I do think it would be missed. One thing that would need to be addressed though is sonar range, especially if the scale is as large as it claims to be. Scouring miles of ocean for one unit will be a pain, just like it is in TA and (to a lesser extent) SC. Having water and archipelago worlds would be nice, and I think a navy would be essential for these types of planets. So yes, I think it should be included, if only to increase the overall variety of the game.

"Need" not in the traditional sense, but I seriously WANT naval because it has always been my favourite aspect of TA and SupCom.

Completely agreed.

Naval units are essentially a niche (for aquatic planets) game changer. They're heavy, area-denial units, limited by speed and the area they can operate in. If we have orbital weapons, you could imagine ASAT naval units as well.

We just voted on whether to have more factions or more unit variety -- and unit variety decisively won with something over 91% of the votes.

Not to mention, as you say, Removing the navy would be taking away from the original feel of TA and SC.!

/input

Why not? If they're going to have oceans and seas, why should we not be allowed to use them. If I'm going for complete planetary domination, I want a navy to patrol what could potentially be much of its surface. On massive planets, purely land based structures and units could get stale.

Also, I imagine oceans could play a large role for more stealthy oriented gamers. Colonize a planet, but keep below the surface. Set a trap for the next person who comes along. Or drop onto a planet's oceans and begin creating an amphibious army to take over control.

Like mentioned before, they could also be used for some protection from surface explosions. Hide your most prized creations underwater to both keep them secret, and protect them from damage.

If underwater was poorly armoured, surface very heavily, it could work. Of course, there would need to be 'torpedo' units like in TA to easily destroy those underwater things. And perhaps specialized interplanetary weapons that penetrate the surface? That may be unnecessary though.

I'm really just looking for a modernized TA, as I'm sure many others are. Backed it solely for that reason. If they're going to leave out one of the 3 original unit types, I'd be very disappointed. I don't doubt the game could be great without navies, but there's just something truly epic about a fleet of battleships travelling across the planet to blow a base to pieces. The enemy could always then just leave the planet, effectively negating the now useless navy, but also surrendering that planet.

The viability of naval units will be very dependent on the map for obvious reasons (if there is a lot of water, they will be more useful). On maps with multiple planets however, even if there are huge oceans, they will be separated by...well by space. And since ships can't leave the water (with a few exceptions ), logistics might become a real problem, because rebuilding your expensive fleet every time you can excess another ocean is incredibly impractical. This is one of many things that might turn a gimmick, which would be terrible.
Therefore I would like to see air and space transports FOR SHIPS! (not sure if someone had this idea already, maybe I should have read the thread more closely)
I know that sounds ridiculous, but it would go well with the new catchphrase of the devs, and it might add the possibility of literal ghetto-gunSHIPS.
Wouldn't that be awesome? :lol:

So, after suggesting this silly idea, I'd say that navy would be nice to have but not as a gimmick. If the decision between a gimmicky navy and no navy at all has to be made, there should not be any naval combat. If there is any way to make navy work (at least as good as in supcom/fa) it would be a nice addition to the gameplay, so I think it was a good decision to make it a stretchgoal.

What about space-ships that can land on water and move around, or land on the surface of a planet and just become a stationary defensive platform (until it takes off.. which expends a lot of energy)

If a Spaceship and go from Orbit, land and take off again what's stopping it from just staying airborne where it'd obviously be more effective?

Mike

Maybe it can't use all of its weapons from orbit against the surface? (Or any.. depending on its weapons..)

Definitely. I loved having underwater bases in TA. You could gather resources, build sub construction workers, and just all around surprise an enemy with a base right under their noses. Plus, it would make it much easier to create a larger variety of units without them starting to get repetitive. I do think we should avoid boats that walk on land though (SupCom), unless they are hovercrafts.

Well, in TA, boats where faster than land units. It didn't feel unrealistic to me either (though I know reality really is different). Plus, PA is going for awesome, not realism.

Again, in TA boats weren't AA, but they still did far better vs planes than most land units (with attacks either being missiles, or doing large explosive AoE damage, which screwed planes bad).

Why not? The distance from orbit to surface is TINY compared to regular distances in Deep Space.

Don't make arguments for gameplay mechanics using arbitrary statements, they never lead to good gameplay, leads players to question the game.

Mike

Space ships and Naval units would not fit well due to feature creep imo. When you are waging a war across a solar system air units are even pushing the limits of allot of players to manage with ground units.

Id say if space and naval units are wanted then its a job for the modding community.

Er..

I'm gonna make the assumption that hitting infantry from orbit using weapons designed to be used at 'close ranges' is probably not going to work very well IRL. Either entering atmosphere will vape the ammo, or your aim will be really shitty.

Hence my supposition.

... and really, it would solve the complaints of naval ships being extra niche units. SupCom had ships with legs, so, maybe ships that fly isn't that much more crazy.

I think you misunderstood the term feature creep
(features that during the development must be added, due an external force wanting them, most times the marketing department)

Currently the game is not in actual development yet, so the team can still carefully pick the features they want, at which priority

But yeah, if it doesn't end up in the final game, I hope they at least pave the way for the modding community to add it.

I may have misused it but the point I was trying to get across was making a convoluted mess by jumping the gun and adding too much. In the grand scheme of things I don't see naval units being worth anything when people will be flinging asteroids at each other and fighting across planets. Space ships are plausible but I don't see having all this as benefiting the game. If they can make a system where I can simultaneously control my navy,space fleet,land army and air force all at a single time without the need to ever zoom in then I am all for it but I don't see that as happening.

If we are after the quintesential TA atmosphere, then we need naval.

I'll third that post-of-a-post, for good measure.