Do premium steam buyers of PA get Titans?

EA on steam did not matter in funding the kickstarter ...

I think while it is true that kickstarter backers did pledge for a pure idea with nothing behind it while early access buyers bought the game when it already was in a playable state we should get away from spreading a view that creates a "they are looking down on us" feeling for the offended early access buyers.

Their situation isn't the most optimal thing. Personally I don't get why they are THIS angry about 13$, but hey they are and I think one should at least agree that they're certainly not in the very best situation but that it's simply bad luck and Uber can't change that now and probably never could due to financial constraints.

lemme bring this example to you
you move to a new place
your neighbour pays 1k$ for his house per year as taxes
you join that place pay the same ammount of money just later but the government says that your neighbour gets the new faster internet cable for free but you have to pay 200$ to get it

what would happen then?
a phenomena that is already known


and thats it
EA get treated differently and thats why i and many other simply feel cheated by UBER

Considering it's all about a mere 13$ (lets use the numbers from the real problem) I'd say "meh" and go pay and be done with it. Seriously. They were lucky to be there before I was. Sucks, but it's only about 13$ and getting all raged up for those isn't worth it.

I can rage a lot at the fact that I have to pay nearly 20€ every month for the german public television. They seriously have a law that forces me to do pay those stupid money wasters that money. THAT is something I can rage about every time. 20€ EACH MONTH for NOTHING. I do NOT even own a TV but they changed the law just so even people like I have to pay for it.
Those television companies burn 8 BILLION € a year and they rob me and millions of others of our own € to do so.

Here we're talking about a one time 13€ payment for an expansion pack that makes a good game great. Yeah...
Ever played MMORPG? They tend to ask you to pay you 13€ a month just to play them.

But in this case the neighbhor helped build the houses so... Yeah.

totally forgot that my money gone 100% to steam and i got the game for free
damn that
ohh wait
no id did not

so in this case the neighbour paid his house like you at 100%
just that he might even got a heavy discount on his house whilst you payed 300% more then he did (30$ 90$ gap between minimum kickstarter backing ammount)

I'm too tired to try and decipher your "grammar" so I'll just say this:

This game wouldn't exist without the Kickstarter backers. No matter how much someone spent on backing it, they are the reason the game exists.

This doesn't apply to Early Access buyers. They bought a game that was halfway out of the womb in order to have the privilege of watching and influencing the birth. It doesn't matter how much they paid for it, they didn't allow the game to happen. Neither party is entitled to extra content for free. But since Kickstarter backers and their faith are what lead to PA, they were rewarded. The people who helped in Early Access still get SIGNIFICANT discount.

It takes time and money to make this stuff. And in literally every functioning economy in order to attain something which costs resources from someone is to COMPENSATE them for their resource usage. THIS IS HOW THE WORLD WORKS.

Alpha had not yet started when I bought in. There was nothing to play. I knew the risks when I invested $250 and my position was hardly any different than those who got in before the deadline. I did however offer more to getting the game developed than those who threw $20 at it.

There's the catch-22....We're not supposed to be THIS angry about 13$ because it's a mere pittance? If this is the case, then why won't Uber just consider this a patch with some content? After all, the cost is just a pittance.


-Morloc

13$ for you to buy a single copy isn't that much money. Ubers is looking to sell more than a single copy though. They are looking to pay enough copies to pay the wages of more than two dozen developers.

I agree that for 250€ preorders the situation really is pretty weird, though even then it should have been clear that spending that much money on a single game is something you should only do if you're a bit crazy about it. No reasonable person would do that and I would've expected most people who spent that much would not really care about a few more dollars and instead be really happy how PA has developed so much that it even gets an addon now.
Not trying to tell you're stupid because you paid that much for PA early on, I nearly spent 400€ on PA so far. Totally crazy from an objective standpoint imho. But by now my stance really would be 13$ more or less really ... whatever if I get more great support from Uber from it I am totally up for it.

I was a KS backer and bought a bunch of commanders on top of it.

No it doesn't. Backing it on kickstarter makes you a backer.

Buying an already working product on steam, within EA, is different.

Thats a false dichotomy, the assumption of entitlement completely misses the reality of the situation.

Lets twist the example around! Gonna get weird, but its a bad example.

A building company wants to build a house lots of people are interested in. So guy A pays 200k to build a house, using a risky bond. A bunch of rooms gets finished first for whaever, so guy A moves in. Now guy B wants to move in too. He could wait for a while and get it for less money than guy A, but he really wants it and decides to pay 400k to move in early.

Now the building is finished, being at the quality you might expect for that price. So company gives guy A a little present, since hit risks made the whole project possible. Suddenly guy B comes around and stomps on the ground, angrily arguing he payed more and also deserves free stuff.

And so an embarassing debate inflames, centered around the idea how the building company doesn't give out enough free stuff. In future nobody will get free stuff, because guy B stirs up so much **** it just isn't worth it to show gratitude.

This is actually happening. Many companies don't give out freebies anymore. Even tiny communities, lets say a youtuber like Totalbiscuit. Earlier, when upgrading his GPU, he would make a raffle and send the old graphics cards to some lucky person. But people managed to make so much trouble for whatever delusional reasons, that he had to stop doing that.
Thanks for playing a part in that charade that charade.

Tortured metaphors aside, I've learned to never be "Guy B"....ever again. This isn't a whiny/bitter emotional thing, just valuable experience against making the same mistake in the future. If I miss a Kickstarter deadline, I'll only buy in at the EA discount tiers given that EA funding does not offer the same entitlement that KS does, even if it uses the same form of currency.

-Morloc

(oops quoted wrong post)

Thanks! I was angry about you guys for charging for this update, but now that it's "official" you guys understand that the vanilla game was imperfect I'll be happy to pay for TITANS. This post made Uber at least 15$.

Thats a false dichotomy, the assumption of entitlement completely misses the reality of the situation.

Lets twist the example around! Gonna get weird, but its a bad example.

A building company wants to build a house lots of people are interested in. So guy A pays 200k to build a house, using a risky bond. A bunch of rooms gets finished first for whaever, so guy A moves in. Now guy B wants to move in too. He could wait for a while and get it for less money than guy A, but he really wants it and decides to pay 400k to move in early.

Now the building is finished, being at the quality you might expect for that price. So company gives guy A a little present, since hit risks made the whole project possible. Suddenly guy B comes around and stomps on the ground, angrily arguing he payed more and also deserves free stuff.

And so an embarassing debate inflames, centered around the idea how the building company doesn't give out enough free stuff. In future nobody will get free stuff, because guy B stirs up so much **** it just isn't worth it to show gratitude.

This is actually happening. Many companies don't give out freebies anymore. Even tiny communities, lets say a youtuber like Totalbiscuit. Earlier, when upgrading his GPU, he would make a raffle and send the old graphics cards to some lucky person. But people managed to make so much trouble for whatever delusional reasons, that he had to stop doing that.
Thanks for playing a part in that charade that charade.[/QUOTE]
i will just ignore that your example is even more unrealistic then mine was as the guy paying 200k to build the house would make money out of it in the end ...
you also still ignore the fact that EA is also risk just with most of the time having at least something (which was for PA pretty much useless crap until it hit BETA) in hands

also the entire ******* problem IS that they gave something for free for a part of the community which partially payed WAY less
i would not ******* care if i would have picked up the game for 5$ or even the normal price
but due to the ******* fact that 30k people payed even with the fullpriced expansion + their backing ammount on kickstarter STILL at least 10$ less then i had to do by now

but yeah
why am im angry when people getting more then i do
equal treating was never good
so lets go further
EA people get the game stripped of from their steam inv and pay again
they did not took "risks" blabla

or even further?
lets make EA slaves to kickstarters so they dont need to play against AI anymore
also lets charge em on a monthly base for the servers
but the kickstarters should get it for free

could continue like this more and more and even if all this would happen you still would come with bullshit argument "Blablabla took more risk blablabla so better be happy you got a game"

Look x39, I think you have a point but calm the hell down. Disjointed grammar and insane improbabilities won't help your argument.

Temeter, before the introduction of steam refunds, (and maybe a bit after) an EA game is just as much of a gamble as a KS. If they don't have enough dosh to reach the kickstarter, then you get your money back. However, if they run out of money, the game is unfinished. Same with EA.
Simple as that.

In this case, both guy a AND guy b made the product possible. Both took risks.
Guy A had a decent chance of a refund if everything went south, but there was an uncertainty there.
Guy B moved in while the place was under construction and was very far from being finished, without any recourse if it fell flat.
Both were instrumental to the construction- Guy A did help it start, but Guy B's gamble investment helped the project keep going, as Guy A's money had run dry by the time Guy B came around.

This situation is not that simple.

None of us can look into other peoples minds and tell what it is going on. Your actions in funding and community support suggest a much higher level of devotion to this project than the majority. It's also a perceived $40 issue thanks to the way Titans has been presented.

Not exactly correct because I bought in after kickstarter but before I was able to play so I could try and send a message that I wanted this game to happen and I wanted it to happen on Linux, but I assume you were being silly in response to what you thought was a silly dichotomy?

Some of the apparent superiority and assorted "entitlement" nonsense around the tubes from the dedicated fans and/or kickstarter backers vs the early access backers, especially the ones that have paid $90-$250 is pretty disgusting. I'm at a loss why it wasn't just paid content for everybody but those explicitly promised free updates.

Furthermore:
The game wasn't finished at release
Based on kickstarter expectations:

• Offline support wasn't in. Is now.
  
• Galactic war wasn't in. Is now. I was definitely surprised at the female voice and that it wasn't John Lowrie
  
• Advanced modding features wasn't in. Still not in. Mods are nowhere near a first-class component of the game. The TITANS release as a "standalone expansion" feels like a real slap in the face because it could have been an opportunity to set up the concept of "games" within PA allowing mods to be more first-class.
  
• Reclaim wreckage and terrain wasn't in. Haven't tested if it got patched in to base game with TITANS release? Perhaps should go in if it isnt.
  
• Unit cannon wasn't in. Is now.
  
• Sensible player placement of starting positions still doesn't appear to be in? All that talk about two planets destined to crash into each other? THAT IS A COOL FEATURE FOR THE TURTLERS! And all the other possibilities would be appreciated by many others I'd think. Map creation in general feels a bit rough/unfinished.
• Single player save/load. But we got chronocam. For free. So I actually count that a major win.

Would have been good for reviewers and new players and helped make a better game/build the brand if there was money/time:

• Better tutorial system
  
• The gas giant just felt like "its here because we said it would be on kickstarter" and could have used improvement.
• Bot/tank differentiation. Not necessarily a complete game rebalance but presumably would have ended up requiring it. It's a shame this is being specifically mentioned as a Titans feature.
  
• Multi-level terrain. This was done well in TA, I've always wished it was done better in PA and been secretly disappointed. Hopefully patched into original in a way mapmakers can use it. New "tilesets" are totally dlc/expansion content!

I remember thinking "seriously? why now?". The game deserved some poor reviews. Reviewers also failed to pick up on some of the things PA has done really well (and the trend appears to be continuing). It's got to be frustrating/heartbreaking for the PA team. http://www.pcgamer.com/planetary-annihilation-titans-resurrects-a-flawed-rts-and-its-out-today/ is a little fair and a little harsh.

The game has already had additional content beyond the original vision

• Community update for steam.
• Leaderboards.
  
• Chronocam. A spectacular RTS feature that for my usage mostly appears to be well implemented.
  
• Asteroids

I wonder why they didn't hold asteroids back for TITANS? It would have fleshed it out as an expansion. I assume there would be some pedantic people seriously trying to argue over whether the rock crashing into the planet in the original concept video was an asteroid or a moon type planet. There must be a reason why robots are stereotypically in charge/the only ones left in the future.

At no point do I remember being explicitly promised that I wouldn't have to pay for future updates. At the same time I don't particularly feel like going out of my way to praise Uber for finally releasing a product in the state that was promised, that is a fundamental consumer right enshrined in law and actively policed in Australia. We paid them to make this happen, we owe them nothing other than clear payment and civil behaviour you should be affording any other sentient being. There is a good game in PA even if it has sometimes had misteps by its creators and on the other side of the coin has been treated unnecessarily harshly at times.

Human resources may have been a mistaken distraction
Where did the funds come from to support the pre-production and crowdfunding campaign? Where was the attention of key Uber personal, especially management in overseeing an unfinished and poorly reviewed release? Why did they expect people who had provided kickstarter/early access support for PA to take them seriously? Is the failure why Uber is attempting to incentivise kickstarter backers?


Titans is marketed badly to many existing players
I woke up in the morning with the usual blue blinking LED on my phone. Pat dog good morning. Emails, important. Work, blah. Bills, blah. Useless offers and spam, blah. Oh, hey, PA stuff! Neat! Apparent splitting of game that hasn't quite been completed? Fragmentation of community? "as a small token, we'd like to offer you PA: TITANS at 66% off"? Huh? Wait, what's the price of this? $40? Huh? Features that should have been patched into base game mixed with some new stuff that shouldn't be part of base game? $40 of "value" for $13. ~*@* me. That's a big steaming pile of @&@!. Why didn't the numpties release it as DLC?

Marketing doesn't appear to be an Uber strong point
TITANS release. No notice, no discussion, just BOOM! Then relative silence.
Whatever happened to Brad? It almost seemed to me at times like he was on a leash.
Some of the postings on the website have felt like fluffy feel good lip service press releases. They'd go well in my compost heap.
All the discounting and bundling and which brings me too....

Crowdfunding is a disruptive infantile system ignoring investment, publishing and consumer norms
We, the players, are the alleged funders of this game. Supposedly we afforded Uber the ability to not seek private capital or a publisher. We have basically made an investment in Uber without it actually being an investement, being afforded any investment protections or having the benefit of any investor/publisher oversight. We are not merely consumers purchasing widgets, we are stakeholders in an undeveloped, unproven product. Our feedback has supposedly shaped the game. You can try and argue crowdfunding is selling the "experience" of participating in development but I'm definitely not here to buy any such rubbish, I'm here to see a good RTS game in the spirit of TA on Linux that private capital or publishers may not have wanted to back. Uber doesn't post financial details for our perusal. Not all details of project progress are shared (certainly not enough that I would be satisfied as an investor/publisher). Uber is a reasonably innovative company trying new things. We don't know what their company structure is, their management/financial arrangements etc. It would be a big bold step for them to be so open but perhaps that's what crowdfunding really needs. Perhaps it's what society really needs but apparently isn't ready for. It's one big messy unproven melting pot and everyone brings established conventions and associated expectations to the table that just don't fit in the current state of crowdfunding.

Don't undersell your product
Has Uber considered perhaps the heavy discounting was too much? Could there have been a better net profit per unit? Have the finances really been that strained? Has the failure to deliver a targeted, finished, polished, timely 1.0 and diversions onto "this system is cool", "the community wants this" or "this changed" really been that much of a struggle? We wouldn't know.