Do Assasins really, really, really need armour that badly?

I tried out
Gold/Speed
Silver/R0F
Bronze/Armor/Regen

Definitely not a build for the short tempered. But pretty much you push bots and get outta there so fast. You can harass with shuriken and shuffle left and right and are very hard to hit. And it gets so righteous with some pick ups!

if you dont get attacked, you dont need armor.

if you want no deaths all game, then armor up. if you pick ProVsPro battles a lot, armor up. if you only attack bots and turrets, fleeing any deathmatch your lured into, then rate of fire, reload speed, and accuracy might be better.

or the build above.

anywho, shurikens and slash-retreat tactics fair well, so armor is not necesary. i havent played with armor in a long time on my assassin, and rarely do i regret it.

best thing about it, when you play armorless assassin for a long chain of games, the enemy will learn that your health isnt armored. they will start expecting to kill you with face-grapple/bomb/charge/ect. if you switch to armor next game, you teach them to not count on an easy target all over again, and they will have to learn it painfully all over again.

Translation: the best thing about using an Assassin without armor is using armor.

Consider this; you are behind three blackjacks marching towards the moneyball. Next to them is a Tank. Your teammates are on their way or respawning. Here are the possible outcomes:

1) You have no armor. You can only take out one blackjack before the Tank death blossoms and you die. Your moneyball goes down, the rest of his team pushes in, and you lose.

OR

2) You have armor. You survive the death blossom and take out two or three blackjacks before he follows up. Your moneyball stays up. Your team has a chance of winning again.

This is just the simplest version of many, many similar scenarios.

You are playing a third person shooter with a melee class with the least health in the game that EVERY class is capable of one-shotting UNLESS you wear armor. I don't care how good your map awareness is, you cannot avoid damage 100% of the time. Armor is the single most important endorsement the assassin can wear (gold or silver), with RoF (gold or silver) being second for pushing. Armor is needed for a PvP heavy assassin, a pushing assassin, a S-launcher assassin, and a hybrid assassin.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on the armor, Hudson. Assassins benefit MUCH too well from armor NOT to use it. Anyone who doesn't is either arrogant, or stupid.

Or who knows, maybe they're adventurous. There's two sides to the coin, after all.

But it seems unanimous that Assassins and Armor go together like Bacon and everything.

However, I don't agree that Rate of Fire is THAT important. I don't use it outside of blitz, and I get along just fine.
It frees up a slot for another endorsement that fits that particular player's style.

Though, that isn't to say I'm suggesting not to use it. If you find it works for you, by all means.
But. An Assassin without armor will never work for anyone. Or at the very least, not for very long.

i just wana know if one of these two are correct...

1)you can avoid damage if you dont just run up to everything, armor is advised but not necesary, you do have a cloak and wont be picked out if you dont let yourself

2)or, since armor is necesary, yet i play without armor with about the same success against forum player as i do with armor, that means i truely am the best assassin here and i simply play at a handicap to give you all a chance, without which i would simply obliderate everyone with armor and be a god-like prodigy.

...no, im not arrogant. i do NOT believe i am a prodigy. i just dont believe its that difficult to play without armor, all being balanced (meaning your an assassin on a team of equal skill as yourself, one of every class type, against a team of matching skill and classes)

No one accused you of being arrogant.

You could have claimed you were adventurous, but you didn't.
Also, your second statement speaks quite the contrary.

I'm not gonna touch that anymore, because it speaks for itself, really.

im seriously not being arrogant. i just think i do better nowadays with my assassin build. higher damage for less health, i pop in and do as much damage as i can, if i need to i do damage from a range, and i leave when im in danger.

also, to coment on the statement that rate of fire isnt necesary, i agree with a catch. i think if you have armor, rate of fire benefits, and vice versa. but i believe if you dont have armor, you do need to compensate with faster damage in less time, so some form of rate endorsement is necesary in absence of armor. and also, in the absense of rate, to get anything done you might need to get closer for longer to compensate, plus to get kills with your skills or to use health regen to the best of your abilities you need all the health you can get, so in the absense of rate you might need armor to stay long enough to cause damage.

both are the standard, but one or the other probably is necesary. neither wouldnt make much sense, but you definitely dont need both.

I will agree with this.

There is absolutely zero possibility of anyone ever being nearly as EFFICIENT as an armored assassin if they run no armor endorsement and are playing against any sort of mid level players or higher, unless there is just a play style of assassin that is completely foreign to my experiences in this game so far. (The closest I've seen to this was bolt/rev/mano pre title update and PUSH in the current metagame, and they all use armor).

If you don't have armor, you can't go where you are needed to help your team nearly as often. You have to COMPLETELY rely on opportunity just to push bots, let alone kill pros. It means you will juice slower, which means you will wreck turrets slower, which means you get money slower, etc. Armored assassins with good smoke bomb usage can get in and out of bot waves at an almost unstoppable pace because they have about double their normal health to tank damage during the smoke bomb and grapple animations.

I don't know what you could put in place of armor that would grant more efficiency.

Bro, you still haven't offered any sort of rebuttal to my post.

oh that, easy, you can actually kill two blackjacks at least with shurikens, considering you upgraded cloak to 3 and passive to 2 (first things i upgrade).

but if you could lunge into them, you could prob kill all 3 without any endorsements (barebones), it only takes a lunge and slash, you could get it off before the deathblossom.

and if 2 tanks are patrolling each bot lane, well, thats a job for your team's sniper.

Shurikens would take too long and you can't kill more than one bot with a lunge unless they're clumped together.

You are trying incredibly to hard to convince people that an armor-less Assassin is a legit tactic. It's kind of like you are trying to go the hard route just to prove a point. I'm sure any competent gold armor'd assassin could out farm you easily because they don't have to worry nearly as much about dying. As an assassin that uses gold armor, I can take out a bot lane while taking dmg from a tank/gunner/assault (not at the same time of course) and make it out alive. Going armor-less requires you to smoke bomb out or cloak as soon as you are confronted, which seriously hampers your ability to clear lanes.

As somebody has said before, using a speed or juice endorsement is ridiculous considering how fast you can increase those going vanilla.

anyhow, lets agree to disagree.

overall id say there are times for either. as i said before, some people's classes are weaker if you use armor, others are weaker against rate or accuracy endorsements. id say its more like rock paper scissors.

but some would say armor is universal. here is an idea, if armor appears so necesary and so obviously the best endorsement, then is it safe to say uber should nerf gold by 25hp? lolz.

so we all agree, go ahead and nerf it uber, its OP. everyone said so. go back and read it all :lol: :roll:

I'll start by saying that YES, Assassins do need some form of armor, silver at the very least. An Assassin with no armor can get killed by unintentional stray fire on the way to the nearest cluster of bots while completely cloaked. She's just that weak.

I agree with Syd as to Assassins not necessarily needing rate of fire, though. while there aren't too many other endorsements she can really benefit from, rate of fire will only help the Assassin to dismantle bots faster, but you should be able to take as much time with bots as you want if you're attacking bots that nobody is watching (you should be doing this anyway). Bots are the only thing you'll be slashing at that won't kill you if you're not within grapple range, which makes rate of fire sorta unnecessary. I mean, lunge hits entire groups of bots and does more damage anyway. Use it! Melee attacks build more juice, which is reason numero uno to kill bots. Use that, too! While you can pick up speed endorsements on the field to boost your speed, a silver speed endorsement goes to a long way toward increasingly mobility in general, and silver accuracy provides a crazy boost to shuriken usefulness. Try not to run silver armor unless you reeeeeaaaaally need one particular gold endorsement to make a setup work. Gold armor will keep you from falling apart during the course of normal regulation game time.

Name one class that's weaker against a no-armor Assassin. Also, what's your build?

That's like saying they should nerf the sword because it's better than the shuriken launcher.

Armored @$$es are one of the deadliest, scourges of the battle field, if I hear the Hum of an @$$, I get happy cuz I'll jump around till I see them and then I'll either charge or catch them with a bomb, but armored ones live, and usually come back, and are generally just a much bigger threat on the field, For anyone to even consider being an effective @$$, you're gonna need Gold or Silver Armor, or enjoy beigh fodder for someone's kill streak.

You need armor. Why?... **** happens. Without armor there are far too many ways to just one shot you.

-A bad assassin face grapples you and gets lucky due to ping advantage.
-The support randomly turns around and shotguns you.
-Assault happens to charge into you.
-Tank randomly death blossoms or charges and clips you.
-Stray shots hurt, get clipped by a random mortar, oops you are almost dead (or dead if you took a little damage from bots or other stray fire.)

Taking at least silver armor lets you survive events like these.

You can also take risks with armor. Things that would flat out get you killed without armor are something you can try with armor.

I see unarmored assassins as free money.

Armor x3 = No more getting killed from front grapples from other assassins/reduces randomness of the assassin v assassin battle.

Only reason I use it, I used to run rate of fire x3 speed x2 and armor x1. That is until I got tired of only getting killed by assassins, throw armor x3 on and you should never die. Just jump away after you're grappled and either RB away or smoke bomb up to something.

ROF increases the speed at which you slash things, so I used this for sneaking into bases and taking out rocket turrets with no juice. Used to work really well in smaller games(privates). Smoke bomb + going in circle slashing = just enough time to kill the turret, or you could just spawn gremlins and pressure the opposing pros off the ground floor.