Discussion: Early Game Commander Rushes

Well then. Don't be the first team to lose a player! That was hard.

It's almost like the better team gets to win or something.

D-gun would be amazing, i agree. But still i find it weird that i have no problems at all ingame, for me its usually easier and faster kills. Why don't you just play the game a few times and you see that these 6 pages are for nothing. Here comes some proof of counters that i easily found out:


IF YOU LIKE IT TO FIND OUT YOUR OWN STRATEGY'S I GIVE A SMALL SPOILER ALERT ALTOUGH PEOPLE MIGHT ALREADY HAVE POSTED SOME OF THESE THINGS

Now the inevitable point of me spoiling the fun by giving you some tactical things you can do when you scout an incoming comrush. These are options and usually could and should be combined and used only when you think its effective, sometimes a littlebit of practise might be needed.

- Your base should always from the middle to outward be eco and then production so you might lose a factory, but not the economy, try using them as blockades, even the wrecks are usefull.
- Stop making factory's unless you think you are dead without them. Use your old factory's if possible assist them with workers/commanders. Main reason is because you need to use your workforce and eco for better things at that moment.
- Think twice about your commander. Sometimes he is an amazing frontline warrior that can take out 2 commanders alone if you use some skill, but sometimes its better to run, or to stay behind and used as worker.
-Hurt their workforces as much as possible. They are the most harmfull things in these kinds of scenarios and only the better people properly defend them. Also, keep your workers safe from harm. Sometimes, 1 commander can kill 2 commanders just because he is better at healing. Also, usually the team that does the rush has the least energy. Workers cost energy to use.
- Rush T2. This usually will make you kill atleast 1 commander, even if he is running away. Most T2 combat units can be used against commanders. Dont start it if you cannot finish it though (for obvious reasons).
- If your toolate for T2, take all your factory's and make units and start sending it to the side you are expecting them, but dont engage yet unless your losing your base.
- Pelters are good, but use them wisely. Dont make lines if you dont have eco, think about where you place them, a good way to do this is placing them on positions they cannot easily move into. The middle of your base for example, or a small expansion to 1 or more sides of your base. If you do this, you have eco to spare for things that keep your pelters alive. 2 or 3 turrets with a wall for example. This is not totally untakable, but its going to hurt at the very least. You can also use your commander to shield pelters, make carefull use of movement, repairs, Ubercannon, reclaim and build. Also, you can wait for them to arrive at your base, then make a few or a whole line of pelters on the side in the direction you expect them to flee, they can shoot around the commander to kill tanks/workers behind him from a safe distance. Think about when you let them fire their first shot, they will be in trouble and they might insta-rush it down.
- AA/airsup they are your scouts, they deny your enemy's line of sight and they also make way for your bombers, wich can take control of most suportunits the enemy will be sending. dont make toomuch bombers if you dont have the eco to suport both bombers and groundunits or turrets/repairs.
- Incoming commrush is the best case scenario if your planning to reclaim his living commander with airfabricators, if you reclaim 1, the other will probably get scared. Use fighters and aswell.
- Bot raids. Very good because of relative cheap and fast and usefull to take out everything thats important for the enemy except his main force. You should try to kill lone factory's and radars and AA near your base and enemy workers also undefended enemy pelters.
- Tanks are obviously better at slowing down their progression into your base. Use them as mobile turrets or to block incoming damage.
- Naval. If they havent seen it, a few bluebottles can mess up most ground units including commanders. can be even better then pelters sometimes.
- Flee and then try to trap them in your base. If your teammates are helpfull they can wait till the enemy ran into your base and cut of their escape, all the teammembers that can afford to have to use units and turrets to make leaving not an option for the enemy. This is not the easiest, but if your creative you can pull this one off. You always need to make eco in someone elses base, or just anywhere except there or your going to have troubles keeping them in check.
- Sacrifice. Sounds weird, but i always feel like 1 comm for 2 is a good deal. Although sometimes this is not exactly the case for example if everyone blows up in your base.

the wreckage of the egg could slowly dissolve/dissipate - more akin to a capacitor rather than a battery/storage, so if you dont use it early on you loose it - therefore there is a temptation for the commander to stay in base to use the resource, as you will not get enough fabbers out in time to use it all before it diapears, but you can still choose to com-rush if you wish to loose the benefits of the glorious gooey egginess. - maybe a wormhole is open to your home planet, giving access to its resources, but it shuts off after x seconds, so ending the resource boost. better than wreckage, as you can always come bcak and use that later, or get fabbers to use it.

a super short-range slow-firing gun sounds a bit dull to me, and would almost become league of legends ish where you cant really attack until a certain power level is reached - why insist on a lack of tactical options. i hate being rushed, but i dont resent its inclusion as long as its a gamble, rather than a no brainer.

1 commander per army would be a good option (for organised teams) if the other players start with fabbers else the start of the game would be so dull, but i also like the slow death of loosing 1 commander at a time and the others therefore becoming more important, tension rising etc.

You guys seem to forget this is a game.

Not everyone is a competitive player. In fact, most people don't play competitively.

Some people just want to play the game. Kicking people out of the game lowers the enjoyment level for everyone in the game. Now I can't play with my friend for the next 2 hours because he was sniped by some bombers.

It's a game. We must make sure this game is enjoyable before we make sure it is competitive.

control of the comm could still be performed by any team member. not like it gives you some mystical power over your team having control of him, i dont see that many ppl caring honestly.

however my idea is not without its flaws... now the advantage of being able to survive in such a large based game has been reduced to the one target to rule them all. Then again there can only be one commander in chief on a battle field so.......

im quite mixed now since having multiple makes a nice cat and mouse like play as one or two comms is destroyed and you try to hide the others, but only one comm per team would definetely fix the current problem

At what point has losing legitimately become known as ' competitive ' ?

I do kinda like the idea of only one Commander for Army matches.

Would solve a lot of issues.

I think people who play PA in multiplayer realize that they are not playing some "happy world, everyone wins" casual game. It is a RTS, players play against each other and somebody loses in the end. I don't think we need to change anything about that.

Not sure what you're trying to say.

I'm not talking about losing.

I'm talking about one player getting kicked 20-30 minutes into a game. The game has not yet been lost, therefore losing is not yet a factor.

I wholeheartedly agree.

And no one thinks that.

However, if 20-30 minutes into a game a commander dies and the match continues for another 2 hours, the enjoyment goes down for everyone. Now one player cannot play and the other players are no longer playing with their friend. The enjoyment goes down for everyone involved.

That is not good.

yep a special team army unit could be made for other existing players, with the same build efficiency, and storage as the comm just no weapons. that way all players still feel equal.

Losing is a factor from the first moment combat is initiated. If you can't handle being apart from your friends while you play and they watch (or vice-versa) then I think an RTS of this lineage is not the right match for your sensibilities.

Might I suggest a more 'Arcade' style of RTS where you're free to drop in and out with zero consequences?
That sure sounds like fun, huh?

Protip: To win the game, shoot the enemy Commander until it dies.

Any other issues can be solved with

Code:

Commander dies: Game continues.

This is not necessary. Failing to use your starting wreckage automatically places it at risk from an enemy scout rush. Using it too slowly means you're slower than everyone else and thus worse off. Destroying the wreckage means you get nothing.

Since nobody responded to me, i assume everyone is trying out my tactics.

For what it's worth--after reading this thread, the majority of opinions suggested seem to be how to change the commander's power, or use as an offensive or defensive weapon--yet no one (to my knowledge) has discussed the possibility of increasing the commander's usefulness as an economic tool. I know that there aren't going to be comm upgrades, but perhaps have a tiered system as your economy moves into the T2 stage (with upgraded power plants and the like) your comm can become a more powerful builder--e.g., increasing the speed of his nanolathe? This would keep the commander relevant throughout the game, would incentivize players to keep him alive through the game rather than using him as a big bomb, yet would also not be OP because it would be dependent on the state of your eco.

Some of that was suggested over on this thread: https://forums.uberent.com/threads/speeding-up-the-early-game.55206/

Could be a good two birds with one stone.

Is it just me, or has this discussion turn into a degrading match of telling people they suck and so their opinion doesn't matter?

A variant of the one commander per team: if a team (note: not an alliance of teams) has multiple commanders, they lose the game if any of them die. Not sure it really solves the problem of rushing with n+1 commanders, but it makes it much more risky at least. You could explain it as commanders that share units being part of some hive mind that can't function without all of the commanders or something.

It seems like a part of the problem is that in team armies games n-1 of your commanders are expendable.

Well, if I understand it correctly, it's akin to full-share a la Supcom, yes? So that does tend to lessen the personal risk associated with using your commander as Rambo...

I was thinking part of why commander rushes are so good is that while the commander is a "good" early game construction unit it's a "super overpowered omg" early game combat unit. The guy who's rushing is using his best ability while the guy NOT rushing is using his second-best ability.

Maybe part of the answer is to just make the commander more valuable as a stay-at-home unit.

Slow his movement speed a bit?
Decrease the amount of energy he uses per metal?
Increase his build speed?
Give his gun more of an energy cost to fire?

Even though some of these can help the rusher, once he gets there, it means that time spent moving is time spent not using your best ability, which is construction related.

Movement speed would be my vote.

Although that might work bad with air transports.....