Discussion: Early Game Commander Rushes

I thought it was apparent that the talk is about team-army mode and rushing with multiple comms (more than the defender has in that base). It was repeatly said in other posts that its no problem in FFA or 1vs1.

Alright then.

So:

Wait, what?

Why is this an issue in team games.... If you spawn your team right, you should know that single comm bases are MORE VULNERABLE initially. And thus, you should pour more eco into it initially to protect the base from attack.

Thought that would be apparent lol.

Regarding micro, we are talking about team games, where player micro is spread between a team. I don't see an issue with a player choosing to spend their micro in an comm rush attack while 2, 3 or 4 players spend their time doing other things like expanding or ecoing.

I see macro as grand strategy, which is me choosing targets from scouting, communicating to my teammakes and making targeted attacks with commanders. I communicate with my teammates about my power needs and sending me tanks or engineers. That is strategy and in my mind, macromanagement.

Many people confuse macromanagement with ecoing, which is micromanagement of building resources.

I explained why i consider teamcommrush op
I mean that should be rather obvious weither you have 3, 5 or 10 commanders on your team one commander is strong enough to hold of small troops 3 of them easily destroy one enemy comm on a one planet match and the worst thing in team as stated many times already it can be done by one player with basicly no real consequenses for him or the others as long as one comm is still left ....
it is mindboggling to hear " eh we can affort to lose one or two comms"
i mean what? You threw away or left the unit that is supposed to be the most important without any second thought at times ... and you cant tell me you would go head on into commrush in an alliance match without knowing the risks of getting kicked on death and the need for player coordination doing it with 2+ comms

And the devs have taken steps to remove micromanagement from resource building. You can quickly queue numerous resources and now you can area-build to very quickly dictate a new array of energy structures or a new swath of metal makers.

It really comes down to a question of who should win:
The player who micros his attack to the finest detail
or
The player who attacks messily but concentrates much more heavily on expansion and overarching gameplan

Everything about PA's design points to the second one being the goal. Micromanaged commander rushes as a major deciding factor of which team wins is contrary to this game's design goals.

It would be no different if micromanaging Ants always resulted in victory. It would mean that something is wrong with the game, because the game is not supposed to be about micromanaging combat units.

The issue isn't 1v1s. The issues is 3v3s, 4v4s, and 5v5s. It's pretty balanced on 1v1s IMO.

Most of the "counters" to comm rushes posted on here aren't counters. Unless waiting until 15 minutes into the game is considered a counter. As I have said several times. Again, if you are going to participate in this discussion, you should actually read what is posted.

You also have provided no counters other than vague "you have no skill" and also ignore the fact that I have even listed possible counters to comm rushes and why they aren't very valid.

I shall cease to acknowledge your posts on this thread since you quite obviously don't bother to read anything on this thread since I have addressed several of your wild and baseless accusations.

Why is it the most important? The names of players that rush have absolutely no effect on anything I have said. In fact, that'd be the most irrelevant detail.

Zaphod. Read the thread before you reply. We have addressed many of the things you bring up but you haven't bothered to read them.

Here's yet another overview of why it's bad gameplay and OP: https://forums.uberent.com/threads/discussion-early-game-commander-rushes.55172/page-11#post-848873

Also, respond to the points brought up rather than flinging out vague baseless accusations: https://forums.uberent.com/threads/discussion-early-game-commander-rushes.55172/page-11#post-848881

Here's more: https://forums.uberent.com/threads/discussion-early-game-commander-rushes.55172/page-11#post-848882

The issue isn't 1v1s. The issue in this thread has always been large army matches. There is no risk to sending out 3 of your commanders and leaving one behind. Even if you lose all three commanders, you'll cause a lot of damage and it's well worth the exchange.

I agree that comms in army matches can be considered expendable - but I choose to be cautious with my commander management during those matches so as to minimize he possibility of a snipe.

Regardless, the comm rush is still a pretty difficult tactic to defend from a good player like Zaphod. Believe me, I've tried a few times. Had moments where I thought I was winning. None of it mattered once he started the dual pelted spam and comm rush lol.

But that's the game. My mistake, one I won't make again.

I've been watching a lot of team army casts and I cant even name one where a comrush dictated the game. Hence the call for some concrete examples. Are you finding this to be mostly a problem in casual games? I see were this can be a bit cheap or boring, but it doesnt really seem OP. With good scouting you head them off and trade a few commanders. Likely the team rushing comes away seriously disadvantaged unless they catch you off guard. It seems to me that any change that could possibly stop comrushes would have far too many downsides to be worthwhile.

It's ZaphodX's favorite strategy. He uses it every Army match. (I've mentioned that several times) Just because you haven't seen any doesn't mean the arguments that have been brought up.

You really are rich Brian. You don't read or reply to all the counter posts and then tell me to read the thread.

The fact of that matter is you haven't even been comm rushed, and you've never tried to counter it. So this entire drama thread you've started is you thinking comm rushes are OP when you've never even played against one. The only comm rush you've played against was probably against me when you made the worst possible response to a comm rush and got punished for it as I detailed early in this thread.

Utterly ridiculous you would create this much drama about a non-existent balance issue you have never even come across.

You don't get comm rushed in public games because people won't ever let you take their commander. The only time you'll get comm rushed is by me or Cumsume, or possibly Mot9001.

It's utterly ridiculous at how personal and offensive it is to see the two biggest casters of our community at each others throats.

I'm declaring this thread dead and am asking someone with a red KILL button to finish the job.

Really guys. STOP. This reminds me of the PS2 forums too much: good people beating on other good people about something ridiculous like name calling and the like.

Take a breath, step back. Come back in a few days and rethink your thought process, Zaphod and Brian.

Commander pushing is by far my favorite early game strat, but thats just it. if u get laser towers and get walls infront of them a com rush is halted. In team games ur making a risk that you can hurt the enemy teams eco with your rush more then you hurt your own with not having your most powerful building units in play. its a risk that only some teams take. once tech 2 comes out like levelers or hornets all commanders are gone from the fronts and never seen tell the ending minutes

Well basically all this thread (and Commrushes are OP) is, is Brian's response to being comm-rushed by Zaphod.

If you're going to lose, at least lose with grace.

My issue is that Brian has shown he hasn't been comm rushed, yet he still claims it is OP. Although we are somewhat 'at each other's throats', I don't think we've resorted to name calling. I just think we're two passionate people with strong opinions.

I can see this thread isn't going anywhere and I'm going to try and talk to Brian on TeamSpeak if I can catch him because communicating over forum just isn't going to work in this situation.

Well does he directly need to be rushed to feel like it is a powerful strategy?

No, but he does if he unequivocally states it as OP and uncounterable and misleads people into thinking he actually has experience with comm rushing and countering it.

I can't just watch a few Starcraft videos and claim Marines are OP.

Do we really need videos for the simple fact that a player with 3 comms beats one easily? (Yeeeeeeaaahhh i know how THAT sounds)
and dont come with "the other player/s can do that too" not everyone wants to play cheese ...
the simple fact that it CAN be done by one player with no real consequenses for the attaking team no matter how often or rarely it happens bothers me ... it may get worse once ladder is established

Man i really wish we had propper sandbox with spawning options now .... and i a functioning comp .... and knowledge on how to stream a video for that

Hey, me too

That Cumsume is a ***** lol. Not even being mean, I hope I am both honoring and complimenting him with that. He is probably the only good player other good players lament playing against, while other good players don't really scare him at all.

He makes me laugh. The guy has a knack for picking the right teammates, but when I play him in FFAs I really don't have issues with him