Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarithmic

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

I have two Ideas how to create linear growth
1. Cooldown on ecomomy buildings
2. More cost on every new extractor(2. extractor 2x cost 3. extractor 3x cost etc)
For Logarithmic growth(combination)
1. Cooldown
2. Less income per extractor
3. More cost per extractor
4. Area needed to generate income

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

The problem with this is what happens when you spend more time on the economy early game, but then at 50 minutes, it's pointless to build another one because it generates like 20 energy and costs 20,000...? The problem with linear growth is that people who don't focus on economy can EASILY catch up. I'm fine with having some limiters in place which allow for people who are behind to still be competitive. But if you work hard on your economy early game, and assuming you can keep your stuff alive, you should be able to stay ahead.

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

I don't get the problems with what we had before.

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

I dislike exponential growth and linear growth. I feel like we should have it feel like you are making progress and it is worth the effort to build more mexes and energy at any stage of the game.

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

Exactly. The biggest issue I've seen proposed is that the people who are ahead can get ahead exponentially, so after a while, they'll have so many extra resources that the other player can't contend. The simple solution for this is to just have growth be slower, still exponential, but slower. And make sure that weaker units, en masse, are still effective vs. larger units.

Umm. It's one or the other... But I agree with your second statement that it should ALWAYS be worth the effort to build mexes and generators.

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

I like that idea.

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

Slow exponential is still exponential.

Starcraft economy is also exponential. Though it doesnt matter as much. Becuase there is a low unit cap. Maps arent as huge. The time to double your eco is not as short as it will be in PA (at least i expect that because of the scale of the game, you need that economy going to get the amounts of units out).

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

But if you have reached a point where you have got more then 2X your enemy's economy, then why bother trying to limit it? That guy is probably going to win unless you kill the commander.

I don't get the issue with an exponential economy at all.

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

You're assuming that once you have double your opponents economy, you've guaranteed victory. That's not the case; you might win, but you might not. One thing that I am quite certain of is that you'd have to maintain that 2x economic advantage over your opponent.

With a greatly exponential economic system, once you get it; it becomes very easy to keep it. I don't think that's a well designed game, because it sounds like the optimal strategy is rush for massive economy, then relax and let it do the work for you.

For non-exponential (or less exponential) economies, the player is required to work for the victory more.

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

Well like you said, you would have to work for it and work to keep it.

And if you have managed to get 2X the economy of your enemy, you will also need 2X the defences to keep it, making raiding attacks from your enemy a lot easier to pull off.

And if the exponential effect is slower (Takes time to build fusion power plants and such) than as usual an economic player will be vulnerable to a rusher player.

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

I think exponential growth is the only way to go.
Any strategy which focuses on getting an early economic edge relies on exponential growth in order to make up for the sacrifices which had to be made to get said early edge.
Aggressive strategies also rely on the same mechanic to succeed, the difference is only, that they rely on making the enemy worse than themselves, through killing off stuff, which has to be replaced, or forcing the construction of defense.

The reason economic playstyles are usually more prevalent is, that they are less volatile and therefore more reliable. (And there's the stigma of being a rushing noob attached to almost anything aggressive.)

What I am saying is, that the exponential nature makes going for small edges over the other player worth it, while other forms of growth don't reward those as much or even make them worth less as the game goes on, which happens with logarithmic growth.
In exponential growth situations, even small advantages are worth it, so there is a bigger amount of important decisions for the players to make, which is what strategy games are all about.
Plus if there is some sort of upper bound (like a max amount of extractors ) catching up in economy is possible, even within an exponential system. (Especially if you can enforce an even lower upper bound through force.)

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

Just another note: will an exponential economy be fair in clan/team games that persist over many many hours?

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

It depends if the game shifts from being equal to one side winning.

If the entire side has above 2 times the economy of the other side, then resisting them will take some skill.

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

guys guys, you are all making a fair point, but what you are doing is static values, i mean in the real game there will be a enemy, and that enemy will be hostille, you should also consider how big of a hit it is to destroy a resource tower also, it can't be a instant GG, beacuse one tower makes so much res.

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

So you are saying we should wait until we have a chance to test it before deciding on one or the other?

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

no just that you can't just have 5 resource towers, beacuse it would be way to big of a deal too destroy one of them,a lso if you have all you're resource towers on a planet and it gets blown up you are screwed, that means you have to have very many resource towers spread out over the solar system, which means the resource gain from one tower is really low or the costs of trops of higher tier rises, my personal favorite of making a linear balance is that you're army consumes a static amount of energy and or metal (ex, for ammo), i mean the biggest concerns of war in reality ins't really much the army, more about how to fund a war that drags out(ex ammo, food) all these things cost regularly money, and the bigger army you have the bigger the expense to maintain.

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

But these won't be conventional army's, the logistics of these games is for the units.

So production is more the resource problem then ammo.

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

Correct, it will be energy! and how we make energy we don't really know yet, except for windenergy, there will maybe be forges that needs metal but produces twice the energy. i mean if the dev's make it so bots consume energy, then shooting with the energy guns will drain energy.

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

This is not always true! If the ressources are easy to defend, like if they are all at spawn,its no problem, furthermore, even if its twice as hard to defend, you have twice the ecomy and can manage to get twice the Army/Defence making defending not hard at all. BUT if it its more than twice as risky to get twice the income, like if the risk of getting more income growth exponential, you have to think twice before expanding.

Re: Discussion about growth rates Linear/Exponential/Logarit

don't forget that the enemy haves to spread out his troops to attack all these resource camps