Dear Uber (update review)

So...

I remember once complaining about the 15 second cooldown. The usual response was to lunge and "use the right trigger for once in your life" ... so... about that lunge... Basically my playing style will now be backstab, hide for 15 seconds, backstab, hide, backstab... and kill the occasional bot WITHOUT lunging since it is now completely and utterly useless. The lunge was a good way to kill pros that the grapple didn't kill. Now, I have no way of killing those armored gunners after a backstab.

For all of you saying to use the shuriken launcher, have you ever, EVER, played as an Assassin? Any half-decent pro is going to move out of the way before they let such a slow projectile kill them. The only kills I get with it are the lucky ones when the enemy is already almost dead. That and the occasional deployed Gunner.

OMG WELL YOU CAN JUST SHURIKEN THEM AFTER GRAPPLING. What part of "fixed being able to switch weapons during a grapple" do you not understand? No pro is going to let you sit there and switch weapons without either running away or killing you first. Not viable.

I also like how people are saying WELL OMG YOU DON'T GET YOUR GRAPPLE DRAINED BY LEVEL 3 TRAPS ANYMORE. Yes, because I constantly get caught by those traps right next to the Sniper. Oh wait, no I don't. A lot of good that change does for Assassins.

Assassins have truly become unplayable. Yes, Bolt may be a better Assassin than I am, but even he will admit that I play as Assassin far more than he does (as proven by our career records). I myself will admit that I play Assassin almost exclusively; he does not (just saying, he has classes to fall back on, I really don't). My point is, I have had the time to develop countless pro killing strategies with the Assassin. Not to say that I don't take out bots and turrents, they just don't require a strategy. Every strategy that I have put together is now basically gone; the lunge was an invaluable tool for the Assassins. It is now next to useless.

Please, before telling me to lrn my roll, take a look at my credentials, and then at my reasoning. If you have a valid and relevant response, I will be more than happy to discuss it with you. If you are going to repeat what people have already said in this thread, don't waste your time.

This is an intended feature. They basically want you to pay attention to the map and realize 'hey this doesn't help my team'. Honestly I'd rather it just wasn't a part of the map's turret options, but it is funny watching 30-40 ranked characters still not realize this and waste their money.

I think it's completely fair that I MAYBE can take out 2 players with half HP who are also dazed after spending 50 bucks.....assuming I don't fudge it up and get rung out or killed first. You don't think that is fair?
In the same scenario, playing as any other class (except maybe support)...I would be able to take them out...faster...and more safely without having to rely on a long cooldown

Just running away and letting a pro push forward and claim map control is not acceptable to me and will only hinder my teams ability to win.
If you had to wait 15 seconds in between reloads on the rifle, would the assault still be playable?

Sure. Would it be fun? No.

Just because Shurikens are slow doesn't mean they can't finish a weakened enemy, especially when there are walls to bounce them off of. Take another game I play often for example, Team Fortress 2. Classes like the Soldier and Demoman have slow moving projectiles that are hard to land direct hits with. Does this make their weapons bad? No, you just have to adjust by leading your targets. Having walls nearby to hit targets with splash damage also helps. It's not much different from the Shuriken Launcher. It doesn't do splash damage, but it does have a fast rate of fire and quick reload. Shooting them against walls can make an absolute nightmare for anyone in the red trying to recover their health. It's not very effective on Grenade3, but it works wonderfully on LazorRazor, AmmoMule, and to an extent Steel Peel.

I am also a grapple-happy player and it doesn't take long to switch weapons after a grapple while avoiding counterattacks. Granted it's generally a bad idea to grapple a Tank or Gunner, and Assaults with the level 3 Charge will punish you. If you're in your own base or have at least 1 ally nearby, grappling as any class against any class can open the opponent up to whatever is nearby to do even more damage. Sometimes you don't grapple to kill, you grapple to stall and assist.

And if as an Assassin you fail to kill with a grapple? Use a Smoke Bomb or Dash to get out and get a better position. Upgrading your Dash will give you more sprint time, and Upgrading the Smoke Bomb both increases the blind radius and reduces the cooldown. Why am I mentioning this when I'm positive you already know about this? Perhaps because you underestimate the usefulness of these skills for escaping. With the exception of Gunners, it is hard to hit a target that is moving vertically at a rapid speed, and it can also be difficult to hit a target that is moving quickly around.

Before you ask "does this guy even play Assassin?", no I don't play Assassin much, but that's partly because in pubs I like to make sure that the team I am on has a decent class lineup for defensive measures. If there is no Support, I'll often play Support. After that, if there is no Tank or Gunner, I'll usually take on either of those classes depending on my mood. Then if there are no Assaults I'll play Assault since he's a versitile class. If these classes are already filled then I may play Assassin. I rarely play Sniper because my aim and confidence in precision is terrible, so I don't bother hindering my team.

Why does everything this the assassin should be a melee expert anyhow, they don't wield a sniper rifle.

Well said /thread


Surprised to see that much negativity from players who are supposed to be great at this game. Would you have never played MNC if these changes had been in from the start? Do your reps as decent players still hold true, or are the trolls saying you got no skillz now that your class got nerfed right?

Some of you know me most of you dont. i have been saying this sense the patch was first mentiond to me. every game i have ever liked with the exclusion of counter strike has been ruined by a patch. i.e (left for deads, halos...) that has changed gameplay. patches that fix stuff like party systems and other devy stuff are fine. but ounce gameplay is affected it changes everything.
i myself hate sin's trully. the curseing that spews forth from my mouf is enough to make an old ladys face melt. but that being said i had strategies for them as did most players that had gotten over the first learning curve. they didnt need to be nerfd.
hopefully uber being the incredable team that they are will see this. this thread even seems to be doing a great job of showing the communities response. they were on the ball with this patch hopefully they can continue to listen to we the players and fix what seems to be with the exception of a few players as a bad move on nerfing the sin. either way im stil gunna play just feel bad for the people that enjoyed the sin. looking foward to some new maps protags and always A reason why the scrambler is such a good bot. i mean really what would i do without it

After playing for an hour or so:

-My two man party got split up after a few games
-Seems grapple detection got super juiced, I've been getting grappled by people who are a whole person away.
-My match migrated host and got back to playing in about 15 seconds
-No glitchers
-The money flows like water now

-The Assassin. Oh the Assassin.

IMO The assassin is definitely playable. I've had to change tactics sure, but I was doing just as good as I used to, maybe a tad worse as I'm still adjusting.

For instance now I do as bolt said, upgrade passive once and farm for my katana.
With grapples now being $50, add in a taunt and some bots, boom I got it in a minute.
Against better pro's I won't get it so quick but still quick enough.

This is the same way I play gunner. Unlike the gunner however, I do need my other skills.
Although I don't mind having to upgrade to sword right away, I would like to see a little more damage from the dagger lunge.
It does limit what you can do in the first few minutes and how to play it, but definitely still playable.

I still hit Y after I grapple. Still charge into places I used to be able to survive. But I'll break those once I play a little more.

gregggyyyyyys gapa shot theroy. saw a man get hit with five gapshot rounds the sec he left his spawn. neadless to say he died. longshots cost 500 to buld up gap shot cost 100 hmmmm

It's hard not to be negative when you favorite pro is neutered over night.
What class do you play most? How would you feel if they stripped it of crucial combat mechanics? Would you not express your disdain for such blatant nerfs?

I have no problems doing well with other classes like assault and sniper, as many forum goers can attest to.

Sin is just the one that fits my personality and playstyle the best.
Hate to see them ruin such a fun unique class.

This is how I was playing in pubs and it was lame, but playable.
However this changes when you are with a team as the game ends before or right around the time you get the katana, meaning you would have been better off just choosing another pro and upgrading out of spawn
Not to mention sprint and cloak at level one blow hard

When I first saw the new lunge damage I thought it was a glitch or maybe some error.
It literally does about the damage of a melee
They didn't just lower its damage, they hit it with the nerf hammer like the fist of an angry god.

"Waah! My lunge facegrabs aren't killing people in one fell swoop! Waah!" "HALP ME! I'M FORCED TO BACKSTAB NOW! I HAVE FALLEN AND I CAN'T GET UP!"

Scrubs.

Yeah, how about instead of complaining literally hours after the patch, you assassin players learn how to play the class how it was intended to be played. Obviously Uber made the changes to the class because people were exploiting certain abilities. THEY are the developers of the game, not you, and I would think it's safe to say that Uber is probably a better judge of balance than anybody here.

How about people stop trying to tell someone how a class is meant to be played... Assassins are not your bot/turret go-fers, they should be free to make whatever choice they choose in a match.

The assassin once had the characteristics to go up against anyone and win effectively and at the same time she was pretty much the best at dispatching bots and turrets, but just because that's so, doesn't mean that's her design or sole task.

Again too many are full of themselves, talking like you created the game and laid out its tactical expectations....stop being crazy...

The bottom line is the Assassin has been weakened to the point of being pratically useless againts others with skill who are using any other class...

Here's a little math
Tank - product nade = assassin - lunge
Assault - crit = assassin - lunge
Gunner - twins = assassin - lunge
Sniper - traps - explosive shots - rifle = assassin ( >_> snipers)
Support - firebase = assassin - lunge

Come on Uber.
Weakest class in the game - their most useful and versatile ability = waste of code

Magikarp > Assassin

^ Just wrong.

Let's play a little game, shall we?

The Assassin CAN (depending on the armor of the opponent) get a one hit kill with a backstab. After the backstab occurs, there is a 15 second cooldown. If the Assassin grapples from the front, she is unlikely to kill. However, there is still a 15 second cooldown. As you can see, there is no particular advantage to grappling from the front as opposed to grappling from behind. Yet the 15 second cooldown remains.

Now you may argue that it is the Assassin's own fault that she was unable to get a backstab in and had to resort to a front grapple. And guess what? You would be right.

But then... what about the Sniper? His sniper rifle has largely the same concept. He can scope in, and get a body shot, which does quite a bit of damage, but isn't likely to kill. Then you've got the headshot, which is a one hit kill. So why isn't there a 15 second cooldown on the Sniper's scoped shots, body shot OR headshot? If the Sniper was unable to get the headshot, that really is his own fault.

Granted, the Assassin can still use her sword/dagger to attack. So then it would be fair to let the Sniper still use his sniper rifle, but not allow him to scope for 15 seconds. And it's not like he's defenseless. He's still got his insane grapple and traps.

As you can see, the concept in and of itself is the same. Both a grapple and a scoped shot can get a one hit kill; both can also do a large amount of damage without killing. So why is the Assassin stuck with the 15 second cooldown?

Well I managed to get some games in as an Assassin, and I personally see no difference in my performance as one between pre and post-patch. I'm not sure where anyone is getting the "Assassin is broken buff plox", since I still manage to kill BlackJacks and lower health Pros with a Dagger-dash-to-back-grapple attack.

Didn't manage to kill a pro and they're now about to blow that dumb look right off your mask? Use a Smoke Bomb and get out. Got hit while cloaked by a stray shot and have 3 enemy pros spraying the area where you want to go? Go a different way. Tried to attack a group of bots only to start being shot by a firebase you didn't realize was there? Stop attacking, cloak, and leave.

That's odd, as that math doesn't work out for me. Tanks also have that handy jet charge to get out of a bad situation, as well as their deploy to recover health or take a beating from bots to build juice. Then there's the Death Blossom and his secondary throw.

Assault still has their bombs and charge ability and both are very lethal when used in conjunction with each other. He can also harass Snipers and Supports with his Grenade Launcher, as well as grapple enemies at close range while his charge is on cooldown.

Gunners can use their slam to stun bots, daze pros, and ring anyone nearby out when near an edge. Their grapple is also handy for stalling juiced pros and with full upgrade can easily ring people out. Those mortars are also deadly to turrets and anything that gets in the way.

The Sniper's grapple alone can be devastating, and flak is excellent for finishing off wounded targets attempting to take cover. He can even hold his own at close range with his SMG and its grapple.

Support isn't just about the firebase, it's about enhancing the capabilities of allies, be it through healing and buffing their health, the passive aura that strengthens nearby bots, his ability to hack turrets both friend and foe alike to aid his team, and his airstrikes which can clear a small group of bots easily.

Just like the other classes, the Assassin isn't limited to just a simple grapple. Those Shurikens are deadly to those seeking physical cover. Her sprint allows her to have increased speed while maintaining control of her movements which the lunge does not allow. The smoke bomb isn't just about jumping, it can also disable enemy turrets and bots allowing for easy destruction.

Actually neither a headshot or back grapple are true OHKs, they just do a lot of damage. For example a Tank with gold armor and level 3 passive will easily survive both a back grapple and a single headshot (including explosive effect). This can also happen with a Gunner who has significant overhealing from an allied Support.

As for the "15 seconds of no scoping", the downside of using the scope is the significant loss of peripheral vision. While the sniper's traps are an attempt to mitigate this downside, it is still a downside. In addition, weapons like the Assault's Grenade Launcher or the Gunner's Mortar can set off traps, rendering them useless. There are also alternate routes around said traps and even with 3 traps out, it is impossible for a Sniper to cover all angles around him unless he confines himself to a very small area. Sure that sniper can cover an area of the map, but the majority of the map will then be completely devoid of his presence, allowing defenseive classes to just stop that bot lane while others attack.

Perhaps I'm not whining about the assassin much (i did post some concerns in another thread though) is because I never spam lunge-attacks like many people do. Instead of going into a grab thinking you'll be able to lunge spam afterwards, or before going into a 1v1 by just spam lunging a bunch of times... I've always cloaked, lined up... ninja starred a round while running towards, then grab/kill (or lunge/sword/sword/grab). That's not the only alternate method either... Nothing has changed there for me. It's all about method.. the lunge spam has been nerf'd... doesnt affect my playstyle. IMO, people should just get used to the changes figure out the best ways to use the class now. Some of the complaints are overkill...

As far as tanks go? Cloak+run up to tank+smoke+blade/star spam+grab. Killing tanks more or less always required a approach similar to this, and I dont feel that its changed at all. Same thing goes for turrets/firebases really, though as lvl1 passive its much harder to smoke/dagger spam a lvl1 turrent than it was before (ninja star has always paid off better for that tho by rewarding you with more Juice.. so meh, i'll just Star more).

Snipers/Supports/Assassins/Assaults are still easy to instakill from behind with a proper grapple thats actually from behind and not the side/front.. which means you can't just blind lunge/grab towards a Pro and "hope" its on target for a behind attack... you have to be more precise now.

I just find the character is basically the same, but isnt so friendly to spam attacks/users anymore, which means fewer beginners will use the class (good thing.. fewer lame 1/1 : K/D people now) until they get the mechanics of the game down. Its still a super deadly class.

All that said, I still dont think cloak while grappling should have been removed...

BTW. Rapid Fire as GOLD is an ABSOLUTE MUST with the Assassin now if you plan on staying lvl1/2 passive for awhile. If you haven't figured that out yet, give it a try... IMO it totally balances out some of the change. I think this was actually part of the reason for the nerf in the first place, because before ... and you have to admit... that little a** dagger with rapid was more powerful than it should of been. I could play a whole game before, basically never upgrading anything.. and now I can't. You've never been able to say that about the other classes. So that = a balance.

God bless the speed/dash glitch being fixed.

Thanks for proving that an Assassin is too weak to kill anything but bots and that her only option is to run.

The 15 seconds of no grappling is a significant loss of offensive ability on the Assassin's part. Without that she is susceptible to Assault's charge, Gunner's slam, Sniper's grapple, and Tanks in general. And if there is a Support there, there's probably a turrent nearby as well. And from my experience, Snipers ALWAYS confine themselves to areas where their traps will protect them. Assassins have no such defensive capabilities.

Yeah it is disappointing running around with a limp noodle for a few minutes while everyone else has superior firepower. And yes level 1 dash and cloak are useless.
I definitely know what you mean about picking another character over her in parties that do well. It's like by the time you're cars all warmed up the race is over.
I've been in pubs all day solo and have been doing very well though, so I guess we just have to deal with it.
It is my favorite class as well so I'll take it any way I can get it. ...Giggity

On a side note I take back what I said about host migrating, I've failed every time since.