Commanders and what we know so far.

What Mike says. He pretty much sums up the concerns and information gaps that we lack to clear these concerns. I do believe nobody wants you to cancel the abilities and such. So even with these things take it as feedback and keep developing the game. We want you to deliver the best you can.

With this clarification alone on the matter, i believe that it will all be balanced, and we are all making abit too much of a fuzz about it. So keep developing and give us something we will never regret supporting!

I think that the balance issue can be solved by adding a game mode that every commander is virtually identical.
I do not expect this game completely balanced and I am absolutely okay with it unless certain commander obviously ruin the game balance. For me, variety of strategy is far more important than perfect symmetry. Starcraft was not balanced but its infinite diversity made SC one of the best multiplayer games ever made.
(Personally I hope PA can even have multiple unit pools in the future via expansions or mods.)

Wow 7 pages of people thinking the worst and best that can happen from diffrent comander skills based on little infomation made a intresting read i must say.
Talk about roller coster of mixed reactons funny most are basd on wild ideas and expections.

Now to what i think..
If you start on a world with other comander say a stone throw away i think i pick the skills to defend the base from rush attacks.
Or start on a world like the one we saw the dessert concept jump jets to for example to short cut to the deposits.
Assassin mode i see cloaking used to prevent sniping.

Any way thats a few of my 2 cents
cheers

There's no reason for a Comm chassis to have different base stats. After all, every machine in this war is the pinnacle of technology.

I think it's too early for a question like that. Each ability demands its own round of testing. The more "weight" an ability has, the more trouble it will be to balance. Most likely any unique traits will be fairly minor, but add cool flavor to a Commander nonetheless.

This seems like a good system and I hope you don't give up on it. It's basically 2 advanced traits, on top of a Comm's basic equipment. These traits would be non standard features on a limited hard point space, but are by no means defining traits of a Commander.

A good example of a passive advanced trait might be a radar/sonar system. Or a capture defense. Or an emergency transport escape system. These traits are not really essential and they don't change the way you play. Rather, they provide an extra safety net that you might want against various forms of cheese or OHKOs.

An advanced active trait might include superior capture/reclaim equipment or more flexible armaments. It could be a utility thing, like the Comm can transform rocket wreckage directly into a factory. It could be a tool to flush out hidden Commanders. It could be a unit unlock, something that interacts with the Comm to create a new ability. It could be an improved trait on an existing ability, like faster acting/cheaper cloak or faster super weapon recharge(not uber cannon).

It is expected that any active ability will change gameplay somewhat. By keeping the "weight" low they will be more of a style choice("I like to do X", or "Y saves me from this annoyance") rather than a system of choosing the best weapon for the job.

As long as Comms have a base stat line and core set of abilities, the development stays simple so attention can be focused elsewhere. The extra stuff is like jewelry. It's used to polish off a Comm and give each of them a bit of personality.

I agree, and thus why I asked because it hasn't need specifically stated yet, so far that's just what I've been assuming.

That's why I asked for a ball park number, I'm sure there are people out there thinking "ZOMG there will be so many abilities custom commanders will have abilities/combos I can't ever have!!!!!1!!!one!"

If theres only 5-10 active and 5-10 passives(and you're forced to take 1 of each) it does really cut down potential combos. At least until down the line if Uber does more.

Pretty much agree with everything you've said here, I most have missed that quote from Neutrino, it's a good system that's very straight forward.

Mike

Probably closer to 5 than 10! The aim is to get the systems built out, not build every single piece of content that will ever exist.

More great news! This reduces overall combos and makes things easier to balance out as well. Also works against those arguing with the "unique combo" type stuff too.

Mike

Taking this from my other post in the delta commander forum.

Ok, let me try to explain it in the universal language of math (note, im assuming I understand what neutrino is saying in the first place)

Example

1 options for the left arm upgrade
2 options for the right arm upgrade
3 options for the passive ability

With this there is a combination of 6 different commanders that uber will have made default (delta, gamma, omega, zeta, whatever they call it).

Special backer commanders (alpha, progenitor, theta, etc.) have one of those 6 combinations that Uber chooses beforehand and your commander just has the different model/skin.

Custom commanders have one of those 6 combinations of upgrade abilities that they choose beforehand while having their own skin/model design.

Edit: If im wrong, have a red tell me and I will scrap this post, but this is how I understood it to be.

Edit 2: Adjusted numbers to better represent Ubers aims for release.

Also need to adjust for this;

Mike

done

I have a little question, this really concerns me.

If commander doesnt get upgrades in-game, will he have only t1 buildings, with no posibility to expand this to t2 buildings? Just like in TA?

To my unfamiliar eye, it's starting to resemble the furore over hats in TF2 before they were released!

From the name I see, I ask myself.. will be there changings between the commanders during a match? I mean I don't get the names and the "more and more specialized" looking commanders after getting further in the alphabet.

Sorry that I try to think much over it, but as fan you can't just stop when you want to know more about it..

@Neutrino, well you are like a book, you give us some words and we try to read the meaning behind it. That greats then several threads about the difference of an commander lol, so hope you don't get too annoyed.

Hahaha my mistake. I went back and re read Neutrinos post. You are right, custom commander pledgers will be able to select from the same pool as is available to other commanders and there is nothing to suggest that this combination would not be in other commanders as well. I apologise for any confusion I caused with that statement.

Very true, although in light of garatgh’s correction of my statement it seems even more of an innocuous issue to get all tied up over.

[/quote][/quote] Please keep it as you had planned. As you say people may well have a different idea in our heads than what the reality of it is and I really think you guys can pull it off. I am not one of the people who will get a custom commander but I really do think that commanders (custom or not) should be differentiated in gameplay like you have stated.
I think Knight has it right when they say that a lot of people’s concerns likely stem from a lack specifics and thinking of worst case scenarios. There was initially two camps over having a single unit pool for instance and plenty of threads popping up wanting to have multiple factions. As time went on that died off as people learned more about Uber’s vision for the project. I think this will be much the same as you gradually release more information.

Well that's why we're here. To kick your ***!

Seriously though, it just struck me as out of place because PA so far looks like one of the best designed games ever. All the other design choices are so brilliant, that in comparison this just seems... not exactly terrible, but kind of pointless. I feel like it wouldn't add anything to the game and would in fact subtract a small amount. Personally I'd prefer to have all your planned abilities available as upgrades to all commanders in game - I think that would keep all the positives with none of the negatives. But if upgrades are off the table I do think it may be best to stick with just cosmetic differences.

Really? How?

Mike

I think that without knowing any specifics about what they plan it is a bit speculative and pointless to make blanket statements like this.

The issue with having all abilities available to all commanders without any visual distinction reduces readability of the situation. This is a big negative. Everything else in the game is being designed with readability in mind. When you see a unit you should know what to expect regarding its abilities based on its appearance.

Finally as Neutrino keeps on trying to stress to everyone, the debates about what commander abilities will involve is far wider reaching than he has planned. I think rather than trying to debate the pros/cons and protest about perceived balance issues on ability sets (that we have yet to even see!) we should wait until there is more specific information on what commander skill-sets entail.

Since the first and last few pages look similar, I'm just going to assume that discussion hasn't gone anywhere.

I like the ability system. With different commander abilities, I can pick the one which best suits my strategy. If I'd like to change it, I can pick a new commander and launch myself from there. It may not actually change much, but I like to adopt the persona of what I play, and changing characters could help me focus on the new, rather than keep the old

With the typical factions gone, there is nothing left to specialize except for your commander.

If they can balance multiple factions, I'm sure something as simple as a single unit will not be any issue at all.

If they were just cosmetic, I would just pick one I liked and ignore the rest immediately.

It also provides an excellent delivery system for new commanders and mods.

I have had no trouble understanding what Jon meant in his posts. Everyone that has should reread them.

Mike, perhaps you should compile a list of quotes or links of every recent relevant post for commanders alongside your summary.

Yeah, at this point I need to re-write it basically! xD I'll do that later tonight or tomorrow.

Mike

Here's a REAL question about commanders:

Will they ALL be walking humanoid chassis? (What's the plural of chassis?)



What about a 4 legged ACU, or a spiderbot ACU, or a tank ACU...