Change these things: And I will cry tears of joy

Thats not true.

How can a team react, when the assassin approaches in Cloak, and shrukiens the MB from max range, they are NOT going to get to her, before she has at a minimum 3 seconds of shrukiens into it (and if juiced thats about 1/4 of the MB's life) A little clever jumping, and maintaining fire, and she can easily extend that to 5 seconds (half the MB's life, give or take) and than smoke bomb away.

The only thing you can do is hope to grapple her, but shes already at range, making approach from the front impossible (you ever caught a coupe crit shrukiens? They hurt) so you gotta flank.

My point is, she unlike the tank can approach the PERFECT ambush spots, from cloak. Start up juice FROM CLOAK and fire away. There is no, "TANK COMING, GET READY" mind set, its just.. wait wtf.. oh damnit juiced sin, let me try and get over there.

Honestly, i'm tired of the "Compitent Team" argument, no matter of compitency, counters the ability to approach in cloak and pick the perfect firing spot. (wait for them to move away before firing).

Maybe if they added a 5 second cooldwon, from cloak to juice (will never happen) or Reduced the shrukien dmg, and made the sword better (force her in close). But as it is she wrecks money balls.

And Turrets? 3 swipes in Juice and its down, lunge can close the gap alomst entirely to the next turret, and its down. By than the teams reacting, but youve already lost 2 turrets.

Level 3 rockets slower her down a bit, but shell get one before you can react most times, simply because she starts her juice RIGHT ON TOP OF IT.

Thats the biggest problem.

1) Fast juice gain
3) huge mobilty (doubed by lunge)
4) Easily keeps juice when ambushed (no having to start over, gaining a bar, just smoke bomb > Cloak > Lunge > Cloak.
5) Can start juice right ontop of turrets, or at perfect range, angel and position on MB, thanks to Cloak.

They should never have made the CLOAKED class, a beast at base wrecking. Its not balanced IMO.

The heart of the problem is that, Juice takes away any weakness the assassin might have had, which were already few (mainly direct combat) and leaves all of her strengths (speed, jumping, range, damage,). And the Assassin has so many strenghts, and only the one weakness.

Less QQ, and moar pew pew please. :lol:



*edit* I don't mean to be a douche, but everything you've said makes me believe you aim to remove, or make unplayable, the Assassin class. You deserve no sympathy as a result.

/thread.

If you play Assault you should know level 3 is basically a barn wide spread that takes little to no skill to land on a medium ranged target.

Just saying.

I main Assault and I wouldn't mind seeing the Radius remain the same at level 3 as it is at level 2 while still maintaining the damage level. Right now level 3 bomb from a competent Assault is impossible to dodge unless you have a charge to burn, there's no argument to be made there.

This game has a crap ton of balance issues. Don't fool yourself into thinking that it doesn't. Endorsement customization makes balance calls very hard to make. I for one don't think Assassin facestab should be able to one shot any vanilla class without armor, but everyone says "just get armor." What? To make it so that playing against lunge grappling face stabbing Assassins (or lv3 bomb hucking Assaults) don't insta gib you? That's just bandaid fixing in the hands of players themselves. Most good players grab either silver or gold armor on almost all classes. Why? Because a lot of abilities in this game are way too powerful, and armor is the only way to balance those abilities out (like charge 2 instagibbing unarmored assassins, which is BS as well!-- enjoy your FORCED endorsements, might as well just make armor the default and give you two slots to customize... =.=).

A lot of things could be fixed in this game. The fact that Assault hasn't received any balance changes since the 360 version isn't proof of anything.

I made valid points, about her ability to use cloak to make juice even more powerful than it already is.

You have no counter point to make, and so when backed into a wall, you fell on the old "qq, pew pew".

Grats, you're no different than the other assassins, who are hoping nothing bad happens to their class.

I'm glad atleast oner person agrees with me.

Ive said all of those things so many times, only to be told "QQ" with no valid arguments to back the "QQ" up.

Armor is a forced endorsement, I couldn't agree more. But if you make the argument, someone will say "nuh uh, You can run this instead noob" than in the next thread the same person will say "use armor" as a defense to face stab damage. Its rediculous.

I have said so many times.

Assault: Charge 3, Bomb 3 timers are too short. (radius is also probably too large on bomb 3)

Assassin: Face stab damage is too high, back stabs don't need to combo instantly from grapples, Grappling shouldnt reduce the damage you take down to a joke while grappling (Pick 1 of those and fix it, not all 3). Either that or reduce their bot/turret/MB damge and make them a pro killer like assault, and let gunner/sniper deal with bots.

Sniper: too much damage from body shots (they fixed it, 1 down 2 to go)

Assault/Assassin/Sniper were all 3 OP compared to their counterparts, and 2 remain unchanged. I'm not complaining at the speed of patching, im nearly certain both of those class's are on the choping block. These things take time. I'm just laughing inside about how many "assassin, sniper, assault" players come and try and justify their class's with half truths, or flat out lies. Or simply bad play styles, getting them killed, and implying thats balance.

I main Assault, and I can tell you right now, hes OP as hell. Only Gunners give me any trouble at all (or lunged back grapples, that I have NO way of seeing or hearing coming, or stopping , short of hovering at all times). Gunners get me, if I get cocky.. thats it.. ONLY if I get cocky and try and assault them when they have the drop on me, or from over medium range.

Assassins, can single handedly, destroy all bots, turrets and MB.. They don't need support to do any of that, the games often come down to who had the better assassin. And thats a joke.

But in order to have a couple competent players you have to stack teams, which makes everyone rage.

Also, it shouldn't take two players to deal with one player sans juice.

Thats the problem

An assassin cannot be countered by 1 player (not if she doesn't let her self be), it takes multiple people, most assassin deaths happen when she grapples in the middle of the enemy teams push, or if she simply over extends to a place that smokebomb/lunge cant get out of.

I could play 10 games as assassin, where I don't die more than twice, and top the board. I could do that with no problem, and I could make that claim with 0 worry about not being able to back it up.

Id have

5 kills, 2 deaths, 8k money earned, 150+ bot kills, and be the one who killed all the turrets and MB, with or without OT.

And the 2 deaths, are just me being modest, i'm sure if I really focused, I could go 5 or 10 kills and 0 deaths.

While he's being kind of a douche about it, no. You're not making valid points. I have more problems with juiced assaults than assassins, speaking as a support, one of their primary targets. A juiced support can easily get past any defence as long as he has juice and do so much damage to the moneyball it's frankly a little silly. One life of that and a team that can recognize an advantage and the game's over. An assault is even better, using his juiced grenade launcher from awkward spots to counter. The point being control of the middle and your bot lanes is the easiest way to stop juiced players from happening.

Edit: To above, anecdotes do not a point make. I'm off to work.

Not possible by the way, except the enemy team builds turrets faster than you can destroy them.

But please, go ahead and play those 10 games as assassin against decent people and show us the results. I'm curious if assassin is really such an "easy-going" class.

Hi, I like to announce that I will stop posting only to come back with rather random numbers and assumptions.

Guess who I am!

Controlling middle stops all class's except for the assassin. Who can cloak right past and farm your bot spawners or the lanes before mid, with ease. They hit run and cloak before you even know what happend.

And your right, your anecdote about support doesnt make a point.

I'm assuming you are talking about juice assaults giving you more trouble in spawn, while hacking turrets and defending. If thats the case, than you are playing against bad assassins.

Shrukiens = more damage than nade launcher while juiced, even if you can force an assassin to not get close to your turrets, he can do what an assault does from range, only better.

And PS: You arent gonna stop him, only a level 3 is going to even slow him down long enough to grapple.




Grats

What's the point of repeating my previous posts from several pages back? you made no counter to that. All I hear is you whining about Assassins being OP in almost every way, and I made my argument against your suggestion for the grapple change. Furthermore, I believe I said that the changes will affect the Assassin class so severely, she will no longer be useful as anything but a simple scout. And the changes to the other classes come to no other's benefit except for the Support.

I'm sure I said these at one time or another, but I'll leave the post hunting to you.

An Assassin cannot hide when she has juice even with cloak. She will still glow like a firefly.

I am not a support that plays in the back, no. I don't think I'd have any need for gold health regen if I was. It does not take your whole team to secure mid, usually one person can do it just fine. Even a support is capable. The rest can see to the lanes.

You know very well my reference to anecdotal evidence is in reference to the post of yours immediately preceding mine. I have no anecdotes in that post, just facts. The support's juiced shotgun can do ridiculous damage to the moneyball if you have rate of fire, and it's easy to stay alive with 3.3 rock-its everywhere if you're juiced. In addition the grenade launcher does far more damage to the moneyball than shurikens. I don't even know why you think that is. As for turrets juiced shurikens don't really do all that much compared to the katana. Again, not sure why you'd single out shurikens. Hell, assaults can kill me with area damage, but I can just outheal an assassin if she's attacking my turrets from range.

You and another couple people on the forums seem to constantly claim that assassins are unkillable and uncatchable, but frankly speaking I don't see it. It doesn't seem to happen to anyone but you consistent few and that tells me that you have yet to acquire the tools to shut them down. And yes, I've played with good assassins. They're fun and challenging to play against, but they're not uncounterable, and it certainly doesn't take an entire team.

Frankly put personal attacks, snide comments, and seeming lack of understanding of how to conduct yourself in conversation are beginning to really hit my angry button. I refuse to respond to any more of your posts until you attempt to at least speak in an intelligible and at least nominally polite manner.

Mail, very well said.

False information is false. Its almost even.

Shuriken vs moneyball:
Shuriken = 100damage per clip with 1.6second reload fired in 1second
Grenade Launcher = 75damage per shot fired 1 shot per second with a 2.8reload time

The assault's damage pulls ahead after a few seconds but if the enemy is letting you attack the moneyball for more than 5-6seconds then the problem is the players.

The thing is that the assassin doesn't have the uberpowerful remote bomb which does MASSIVE damage to moneyball.

Also @tinygod if the assassin cloaks while juiced the extra glow effect that players get when juiced still shows while cloaked. There is literally no benefit to juicing while cloaked.

Speed. Yes.

Juice gain? Big deal. Tanks can ring out a juiced sin because they can't one-shot them with lunge. If you're spending time as a juiced sin engaging tanks you're either crazy or they have thier back to you - at which point it was irrelevant anyway.

The ability to escape? Tanks have staying power, assassins have tactical retreats. Any competent tank will keep themselves from getting in over thier head. Assassins constantly wade in at shoulder level. Both of them can be very effective however.

Ambushing? The tank is not an ambush class. He's supposed to wade in with the rest of his team or some bots and cause large amounts of chaos in small areas. The assassin causes smaller amounts of chaos over a wide area.

Besides, what kind of sin SHURIKENS bots if they aren't trying to harass someone supporting a bot push before moving in under cloak to shank them. I mean really now. You walk up to a bot wave, press R, and leave. That's how it works.

I still haven't found a way to stop an assassin who focuses on bot/juice and denying ejectors, especially the ones that camp the spawns. I can't force an engagement, I can't pin her down. Even if I deny an area or "escort" a bot wave she can maneuver to the other 3 spawns too quickly.

The only time I've won against those assassins is when our team manages to drop the money ball on the first wave and win from there or have an equal caliber assassin of our own.

Assassin has too much mobility - horizontal and vertical. No one can catch her and deplete her absurdly juice-gaining ability.

classes are fine

just remove annihilator / ejectors / juice shops

something thats so cheap, lame and fa**ish can never be accepted by the bigger crowd

think ppl wanted to see this game more as a shooter then a "skill/game mechanic" smasher anyway >.>

btw got a new Sig!

Nice sig! I love passive agressiveness. It really highlights your weaknesses as a person.

Protip: Steam forums are full of whiners and are the loudest majority known to man.

If you remove the annihilator, ejectors and juice shops every game will end in overtime if either team is halfway decent. Even with the ability to tip the scales with those things now a good enough group can hold out. Then it'll be more about "shooting" as you call it, however the "skill" you're talking about as if it were a bad thing? Well, that'll matter even more! Then we'll have to tweak the classes to make up for the lack of equalizers. Awesome.

The game as it now is quite solid. Could use a bit of polish. Mostly bug/glitch fixes. Couple of small tweaks. Atmosphere is great. Gameplay is fun unless you've got nothing to live for and have never smiled in your life. Skill ceilings, as much as i hate that phrase, are clearly noted.

If skill/game mechanics and shooters don't go hand in hand then i guess we better all go back to playing Pacman. But even that takes knowledge of gameplay mechanics.

Guess we better stop playing games completely.