Can we just get this out of the way?

I agree with the OP, tired of hearing the same things for any suggestions. I know what's in PAMM I don't need someone else to tell me that. I know some people are trying to be helpful but I'd rather you contributed to the discussion in other ways.

Ati brightness fix, does any one else agree?

if what someone is asking for is currently available as a mod, chances are said person doesn't know about it. Giving them access to this if totally reasonable imo.

Also, uber are really busy, they get around to things eventually, however what's the harm in one of the modders giving it a go in the mean time?

this game was built from the ground up to support modders, so that we can help ourselves. Uber won't be able to keep developing pa forever, eventually they'll have to move to a new project. Mods are what have kept ta, spring and supcom fa alive all this time with no dev input at all.

If you don't like mods, then frankly your playing the wrong genre of rts, and this kind of attitude is pretty offensive to all the great modders who give up their free time to improve the game imo.

Just to add to the above, I find it pretty silly that you're saying that talking about a mod that does the exact thing being suggested doesn't add to the discussion. If you're trying to decide whether something would make a good addition to the game and someone's already added it to the game but you ignore that, because it's a mod... Well the illogic is making me angry and I haven't even finished the sentence yet.

Edit: I do agree just saying 'there's a mod for that' isn't helpful, just to clarify. But from what I've seen most people say 'there's a mod for that, and this part works really well but we'd have to consider this if it was in vanilla etc etc'.

If someone is suggesting a feature that is already a mod, then kindly redirect them to said mod. But I'm talking about when someone thinks up an idea that they believe is really cool and post it, only to get 'Hey that can be modded!' It's dumb. We all know that it can be modded. If they want mods, they would suggest it in the mod section.

I don't dislike mods, I never said that nor implied it. I'm just tired of people shouting that mods are possible when the suggestions here are for vanilla PA.

You both missed the point of this thread. I'm not saying mods are bad or that you shouldn't say that a mod for that already exists, I'm saying when someone suggests and idea in this section, you should keep quiet if you don't have anything else to say other than 'That can be modded.' I have no other problem with mods and the modding community than that.

True, but I've seen people wield this *make a mod and come back later dude* comment in plenty of situations where it wasn't necessary. At this stage in the game, we've made mods covering hundreds of possibilities.

I've also seen folks pass off features that could be super useful in game by simply declaring "But mods...."

It's a cop out from having an actual discussion.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly.

If they knew already, they'd post it in the mod forums as a request. They don't do that though, so I will continue to point them to the right subforum.

Not everything can be modded, on the times I have said "that can be modded", it's with this in mind. Sure a good idea being implemented in the vanilla game is the ultimate validation; realistically mods are your best bet in the majority of cases.

pfff! mod territor.... oh woops, sorry!

I'm still going to suggest something if it is a mod.

And I will do so, knowing there is nothing you can do about it. I submit it as a legitimate solution. If it isn't the one you want, you can state so nicely. If you actually rant against it, I can pretend to be hurt feelings and a mod(erator) can discipline you, is the hilarious thing.

So, going all agressive on it, won't silence suggestions to just use a mod. Now, suggesting the mod to be added to vanilla, is something you can suggest on the merit that the mod's idea works. Which, as stated, is what the devs do when a community feedback is really that beneficial.

If you ask about balance, I will still do exactly what I do now: Suggest using a mod or making a mod, and then suggest Uber that it would be more interesting and tactical in-game to specialize things more so a riflemen is less like a tank.

guys read.

OP and the like have nothing against that if it's the case.

they're just tired of people using "mod it" as the ultimate negatory argument finisher when a mod doesn't exist for it and a dev take would be much better/productive for the community/ positive overall.

There is always an app mod for it. If not, if necesary, i'd make it.

For instance, I am delaying because the devs are wrecking some .json unit ability fields in the text files, but I am eventually going to do like 3 more mods for several things.

You have a fair point there, I certainly don't think 'mod it /thread' is usually at all helpful, and you'll note I've never mentioned mods in that context (that I can remember at least).

That said I've noticed hostility on occasion if someone suggests there is a mod for whatever is in question, which needn't be the case.

I think part of the problem is certain things get suggested over and over by new forum goers and some of the older forum members can get a bit grumpy with said uninitiated people, resulting in helpful responses like 'mod it' or even just 'no'

And stop with the shameless peddling of the Orbital Overhaul Mod!

Aah I did indeed misunderstand, thought you were complaining about people using mods as a proof-of-concept for ideas to be added to vanilla. Fully agree that simply suggesting 'mod it' to a new idea is useless without other feedback, although modding can help work out an idea and see how it plays out.

That mod had tactical missile anti-orbital before vanilla did. And you are bashing it.

So, what I understand, is that you don't want the devs to add things to vanilla then. Understood. Over and out.

No I'm not saying that at all. I consider Server Mods a good way for people to try things out, just like how the PTE is used, but don't treat Mods as the coup de grâce for Vanilla.

"If you don't like mods, then frankly your playing the wrong genre of rts". This attitude is what I hate about you modders and in fact this attitude is offensive to the general player base. You guys think your mods are the best things since sliced bread. You guys believe you can do better than Uber. What Uber has created with PA is amazing and if you like modding then that's fine, but stop treating your mods as the saving grace for PA.

1 I'm Not a modder, just able to appreciate the time they put in.

2 if it wasn't for modders ta would no longer exist, spring would never had existed at all, likely no sup com franchise as a result of that meaning chances are no pa, at all, nada, zip.

I don't think modders are 'better' than uber, I really like the game and mainly play vanilla. However uber have finite resources, and modders can and do investigate things uber may not have time for, some of which eventually end up in the main game if successful enough.

In the long term, the mod support helps to secure the future of pa. Like it did with ta and sup com. Jon Mavor himself was instrumental in ensuring this (using text files to define units in ta was revolutionary at the time). I cannot fathom the hate against mods in pa, it certainly doesn't come from uber!