Bubble shields in PA:T?

Discussion in 'PA: TITANS: General Discussion' started by philoscience, August 24, 2015.

?

Would you like to see bubble shields in PA:T?

  1. Yes

    63.2%
  2. No

    36.8%
  1. philoscience

    philoscience Post Master General

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    A lot of great points all around. Clearly the community is mixed on the issue of bubble shields, with about 60% favoring and 40% against. I agree that balance issues are essential to get straight - should shields only block 'death from above', or should they be 360? I think linking them to power is important, as it adds a mechanic where attacking power is a powerful strategic move. I like the idea of making them large movable titans as well. I do think it would be very possible to balance them. For one thing, PA simple isn't susceptible to many of the turtling concerns that plague other RTS. Sure, if you tip the balance too far, it can be. But in general even with strong defenses, on most maps the aggressive player will amass such an amazingly large economy that the turtle can be crushed. I like the idea of sending a massive legion of units all around a bubbled-in turtle, wailing three nukes down or even an asteroid just to pop the shields and invade. Great discussion all around.
    cdrkf likes this.
  2. jurak

    jurak Member

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    Maybe have two types, one that protects against air, and one that protects against orbital?
    We already have walls against land, but those could do with a buff or a upper tier version.

    Actually! Shields could be an upgrade to walls, allowing covering against air and orbital attacks.
  3. pjkon1

    pjkon1 Member

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    I like the idea but I wouldn't call them sheilds if they are repaired by metal, more like bunkers or something.
  4. philoscience

    philoscience Post Master General

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    Personally I prefer the idea of linking them to late game energy. Typically by late game you have insane amounts of t2 energy collected in 'strips' all over your planet(s). If shields draw a lot of power they mostly can just be used for protecting your commander or your army but not both. And it means you can nuke and attack where the shields are not to bring them down. I think that kind of gameplay would be fun. Also- Star Wars! They've destroyed the shield generators captain!
  5. pjkon1

    pjkon1 Member

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    That would be cool and wreck balance (a good thing because in the current balance defenses are underpowered in my experience).
  6. Corgiarmy

    Corgiarmy Active Member

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    We can change the name of the game to Planetary Defense. Then I will agree with shields.
  7. pjkon1

    pjkon1 Member

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    So everything should have one point of health because surviving damage is too defensive? Or perhaps the angel should be removed for its counter missile ability? The antinuke definitely has to go. I don't get what principle you're basing your argument on.
  8. Corgiarmy

    Corgiarmy Active Member

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    I am basing my principal on the games name... you know annihilation. I believe PA should be an offensive game. We already have defense for almost every offensive weapon (besides superweapons like planet laser, halley). Why create more defensive structures? What fun strategy will shields bring to the game... turtling? If PA has a problem with an offensive weapon (like orbital ..whatever... units) then nerf those units or op their defensive structure.
  9. philoscience

    philoscience Post Master General

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    I don't see it as such a black and white thing between turtling and being offensive. Offensive strategies will always win in a game with as much expansion as PA. But having some effective defense strategies makes it more fun for the offensive player - you get to actually ANNIHILATE something! Right now you basically just go back and forth a little bit until you get an eco edge and steamroll the opponent in one go. Shields would introduce a few different mechanics: targeting their power instead of their high value commander (i.e. softening up their defense), allowing to try and 'feint' an attack by turtling up at the last second, and actual counter attacks. I realize there are many who don't enjoy this gameplay, but there are at least as many who do (60% of poll answers). I think the key is to very carefully balance it is always a losing strategy on the long term.
  10. Corgiarmy

    Corgiarmy Active Member

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    There are much worse ideas out there than shields. If they would be added I'd be like "meh, I guess we got shields." But shields seem like redundant defensive structures. Why have both nuke defense or orbital defenses structures when I have a shield? Besides the game can take forever as is why make them any longer.

    Edit: polls can be misleading. Each person who said yes will have a different opinion on how shields should work and half will complain when it's different then their idea.
    Last edited: August 27, 2015
  11. jurak

    jurak Member

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    Shields would stop damage, Anchors blow up sources of damage but can't stop a wave of tanks.
    Shields would protect your base until you could retaliate.
  12. tesseracta

    tesseracta Active Member

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    If there are bubbleshields in the game, these are probably preferable stats and aspects (Pellet means projectile):

    *Stats
    Metal cost: 6800
    Range of protect: 110
    Building sight range: 40
    Building health: 320
    Bubble shield maximum health: 3600
    Starting bubble shield health: 1000
    Shield bubble regeneration: 90/sec
    Shield bubble energy usage (when activated): 4000/sec
    Opposing Ground Unit/Titan (moving into) penetration: True
    Opposing Ground Unit Pellet penetration: False
    Opposing Air Unit/Titan (moving into) Penetration: True
    Opposing Gill-E pellet Penetration: True
    Opposing Seismic Titan Damage penetration: True
    Opposing Air Titan Damage and Pellet penetration: False
    Opposing Hover-tank Titan Damage and pellet penetration: False
    Opposing Orbital Titan Pellet Penetration: False
    Opposing Orbital Unit Pellet Penetration: False
    Orbital Vision: False
    Is Radar: False
    Is Building: True
    Building is a Select-able unit: True
    Shield is a Select-able unit: False
    Nuke Splash Penetration: True
    Nuke (moving into) Penetration: True
    Is Commander (lol): False
    *Aspects
    -Blue Bar below the health bar indicates how much health shield has
    -No other (EDIT: Friendly) shield can be placed within range 260
    -T2
    -Built by any T2 Fabricator
    -Cannot be fabricated by Orbital Units
    -Ground building (not water)
    -Shield (the building is vulnerable) is not vulnerable to any seismic attack
    -Opposing fabricators can not build buildings inside of the shield but can attempt to reclaim the shield
    -After shield is compromised it is burned out for 15 seconds
    -Bubble shield Opacity (visibility) decreases as bubbleshield health goes down
    -Appears as a dome ingame
    -Bubble is color of player/AI's army
    -Bubble protects everything inside of the bubble shield's arc
    -All friendly units can move in and out of the bubble while Opposers can not
    -If opposing units are stuck inside the bubble the building or the shield must be destroyed
    -Opposing units will only attempt to fire at the shield if there are no other units / buildings in range (including buildings inside the shield)
    -Area build rather than line build
    -No other shield can be placed within range 320
    -Shield does not provide vision
    -Opposing Units do not take damage while moving into the shield
    -Shield makes noise (a hum) when active
    -Shield makes a dying noise when destroyed
    -Shield building makes a dying noise when destroyed

    You know, people talk about doing updates to the game but they never actually suggest any real numbers/unit aspects to make it easier for the Devs to understand what the units/buildings/other actually would mean for the game and how it would change the game.

    ^If there's anything anyone reading doesn't understand then don't be afraid to post and ask me :)

    EDIT: @masterdigital @Sorian @jables
    EDIT2: And everyone else
    Last edited: August 29, 2015
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  13. entz

    entz New Member

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    I feel like this is going to make games longer and reduce just a bit the incentive to be aggressive, which is part of what makes PA special.
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  14. jurak

    jurak Member

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    Awesome aside from the nuke thing, I think that it should hit and take out the shield, and the wave from the nuke goes off either way, potentially wrecking whatever you try to shield.

    In this way, you can mitigate nuke damage but not stop it. :3
    tesseracta likes this.
  15. tesseracta

    tesseracta Active Member

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    Nukes should negate shield but not penetrate, I think we agree... and to get an idea how strong a shield is, a wall is 2000 health and this shield is 3600 health. Think that's too much?

    EDIT: It also regenerates to full shield 40 seconds after dying for 15 seconds because of 90 health/sec... should the energy cost be increased per second?

    EDIT2: Keep in mind units can move through this and fire inside the shield
    Last edited: August 28, 2015
  16. jurak

    jurak Member

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    No, but it should only be able to be built by T2 builders
    tesseracta likes this.
  17. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    shields are not fun to me at all its just adding a "your units can survive a bit longer" aspect ... and that's it .. if shields are just damage reduction than stopping damage there would be at least the optional insentive to directly target the shieldgens or aa especialy when using aircraft ... otherwise it will be always about "punch the shields down for a limited timewindow" which just is bs ..
    Last edited: August 29, 2015
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  18. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    SupCom bubble shields are far too jack of all trades for my tastes.

    Further specialise the shield.
  19. Corgiarmy

    Corgiarmy Active Member

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    Anchors are an awkward defensive structure in that they attack just about everything and they were hard to destroy in the old game. I find that most player used them poorly by building a ton of them over their base without worrying about expanding or attacking. They are an annoyance, but not really threating to good player, especially with the new titan expansion. I did noticed anchors lengthen games in the old game, but 95% of the time they are a poor defense if your down in eco. I think shields would do the same thing. They would just make the game one extra wave of attack longer.

    The issues about commanders health in late game could be solved by allowing the commander to enter titan units. This would grant him extra health when late game damage is higher. This is a better solution imo then shields to protect coms and bases.

    Also, a rebalance of umbrellas or t2 umbrellas would solve some orbital op issues without having to add something like a shield.
    huangth likes this.
  20. tesseracta

    tesseracta Active Member

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    You know how in this game how most small units are just one hit kill and that's it? This just allows your units to pile up in some locations and attack later with full force and harass becomes less effective. Think of this new unit as something that makes turtling an actual strategy rather than just noob play, adding another aspect and strategy to the game. (Not necessarily going to prolong the game because both sides can build it therefore both sides are able to protect more units henceforth a sense of security brings more unit and factory production)
    Elate likes this.

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