Brexit

Discussion in 'Unrelated Discussion' started by proeleert, May 9, 2016.

  1. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    I have always seen Nationalism as the end of a spectrum, with Humanitarianism being on the other end.
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  2. proeleert

    proeleert Post Master General

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    Oh yeah I agree that those 4 don't speak for all those that voted to Leave. It just makes me sad when I see stuff like that. I hope that the general population in the UK really condemns this behavior.
  3. mwreynolds

    mwreynolds Well-Known Member

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    So far nothing good has come from this vote.
  4. gmase

    gmase Well-Known Member

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    A vote to get rid of a political layer that you think isn't worth the money and the reduction in freedom doesn't make you nationalist. I'm of the opinion that the less "bosses" I have the better.
    And well, you can say that brexit voters are all (or most of them) racists or nationalist but the truth is that you have no idea about that because voting to leave doesn't imply any of those.
    We could also debate about what does nationalism mean to each of us and if it is good or bad but that is pointless.
  5. patema

    patema Active Member

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    I'll just leave these here

    Some of you might see the light


    This was pretty hilarious :D
  6. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    I am not saying that every single "leave" voter is a nationalist/racist/whatever else. But the core concept of the brexit aligns horribly well with the agenda of those people.
    Now undeniably there may be good reasons to leave. Just like there may be good other reasons to stay. Within the next few month we'll see if there really were good reasons somewhere, so far I agree with @mwreynolds there are no positive effects.
    All you have so far is political chaos, chaos on financial markets and tons of nationalists or even worse racists who feel that their world view has been validated by a democratic vote.
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  7. patema

    patema Active Member

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    But tbh, good for UK. Wanting to be in control of your own life isn't racism imo. It's time to put the Great back to Britain! :)
  8. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    Nationalists aren't racists. Nationalism in itself is not a bad thing. I would argue that its opposite, globalism, is more destructive, because it implies that the people don't know best. The globalist movement today is a tiny oligarchy of elites voting to rope everyone else under their arbitrary rules.

    Nationalism didn't spawn Hitler or Stalin - they fanned the flames of a patriotic pride and wielded them as tools to murder millions.
    Hitler didn't rise to power because of nationalism - he didn't ride a wave of patriotic *GERMANY IZ BEST* fervor into power. He was a brilliant, evil man bent on erasing the Jews from existence in Europe. He used Nationalism as a tool to get there. He used the rage and anger of Germany against WW1 as a tool. He used the fear of Communism as a tool. He used the overbearing powers of the state as a tool.

    If German schools are teaching children to fear the tool, then they will not discern right from wrong when the time comes. We shouldn't fear the tools of politics or the tools of war - we should learn to judge the character of the men wielding them. Hitler was obviously evil, even in the early '30s. The things he said about the Jews - the things he said about other European nations. They were evil.

    Brexit is a surge of the people being tired of the elite bullshit thrown around by their political machine. And also those idiots who voted because "Why not? Never gonna happen anyway right?"
    Never forget those idiots.
    :D

    Trump is riding a similar wave to the White House, and it's why he'll probably smash Hillary in the race. No one except Trump seems to get that, and it is absolutely killing the establishment. The elites look like fools. Brexit demonstrates this in a profound way - Cameron basically threw it up as a political joke and was so flustered he had to resign when it backfired in his face.
  9. Devak

    Devak Post Master General

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    That's not what Globalism is about. Banks are global. Companies are global. You need some form of global government to deal with this. Just look at the Panama papers: technically it's not illegal, it's just companies abusing differences in countries. You need something like the EU to counterbalance that.

    Yet it was "the people" who put people like Hitler in power. You seem to attribute some element to "the people" as if it's always a good thing. Yet the "Regrexit" group as i've seen them called, suggests that there were many people who had no ******* clue what they're doing. Really, it's why a representative democracy exists.
    Last edited: June 29, 2016
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  10. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    yeeeaaa ... not to doom and gloom .... but i wanna see that "great" staying there when scotland and northern ireland gain independence .... and then wales eventualy as well ...

    like ok whatever do what you guys wanna do ... i frankly don´t care and i don´t feel that it affects me in any way ... but i just can´t help but to think that this was a massive shoot in the foot ...
    Last edited: June 29, 2016
  11. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    I'm cool with Scotland and Ireland going solo, as they have the right.

    Might give the rest of us the time to actually evolve our own state into something a little more modern.

    How does the British Republic sound? The United States of Britain?
  12. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    unless you are welsh wouldn´t that be just simply england?
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  13. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    Globalism as the opposite to nationalism? Globalism implies people don't know best? What?
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  14. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    He isn't wrong, but he isn't right either.

    A lot of "globalist" treaties, are just to get the biggest companies the smallest cost to operate a large area. It doesn't affect the little guy, our shipping and tariffs and inspections are still stupid. You can argue big businesses affect the little guy, in the same way the textile industry took care of it's sweatshop workers in the 1890s...

    However, the principal of globalism is good, we should be passing like-minded laws we all agree are right, we need to move in one direction, if our laws are different, it isn't always culture, we need to figure out what's best. No offense, most the time, US and UK can be hella-wrong, if anything, we should probably do most our policies in favor of the most moderate policies of Japan and Germany. Just saying. The more "local efforts", which I agree that the EU shovels social works down other country's throats, are best left local. We really need to have similar education, petty crime, high crime, and legislative systems though.

    #Me4Prez2016
  15. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    I never felt right with how much say the other nations in GB had. Id much rather we represent both Wales and England, rather then a English dominated nation with Wales tacked on the end.

    Now is the perfect opportunity to put a DRAGON on our flag, yay!
  16. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    You wish.

    that just helps you justify your views. If you look into the history jews never did anything to him. but if we'd listen to you we'd be visualising a man who WASN'T INVITED TO A BIRTHDAY PARTY
    [​IMG]
    and so he worked up the nerve and motivation to take over the world (very nearly did but that was the plan at least) so that on his gold-plated skull throne he could issue the order to have all jews on earth killed. Oh yeah and throw in gays and any other type deemed deviant by his evilness.

    are you kidding? this isn't a revenge story.

    Indeed he was clever. and he saw that the crisis was something he could ride on to get to power. I don't think he even thought or planned out any of it. All mein kampf (wirtten durring his stay in prison) does is expose his philosophy (and his rascism), it didn't have anything in it about him taking the throne.

    He must of been at a bar one night after his leave from jail, people were whinging about the crisis, and a heated discussion spiked up where he ended up taking the floor and realizing then and there he had a real gift for speeches and firering people up.

    And so it continued during the next days, he formed a sect, then a religion, then was big enough and some of his followers not mindless fanboys enough for his movement to be called political. So long as it hinged on a scapegoat, his speeches were sure fire.

    Jews fit the bill perfectly. Not even in general but by definition they were rich. Rich rich rich. always rich even in this time where people can't get a loaf of bread.

    So that worked. it really did. But historians around the world have confirmed that had the hate for the jews he himself had built up not spun out of his control. He would have stopped it there.

    It was Himmler that insisted that all jews must die and came up with the concentration camps.

    As you can see Hitler inspired a hate in people even bigger than his own. this is totally normal. you hammer your speeches every day to people like that, people look up to you, they wanna show you that they admire you and that they too share your ideas and ideals (despite Babel rendering it impossible for this to be true until telepathy is invented) and they start trying to come up with ways to one-up their leader in order to impress him.

    I really wish you'd stop seeing america's slavery and the second world war through the prism of today's society. it was a really different time back then with really different mentalities that I don't think you can hope to pretend to understand, but it's what you must start with because your perception of these clearly embody the pillars on which you found the logic by which you justify your beliefs about others their differences, their inferior merits and rights due to their birth, their circumstances and their choices.

    If you didn't have a completely rationalized and romanticized view of the second world war and slavery (which really start to look like a fairy tale the way you tell it : there's a real bad baddy, and he's the baddest baddy that ever badded and he's the one responsible for all the bad that ever badded the bad but it's all happily ever after because he's dead) you wouldn't be able to explain your own views.
    Last edited: June 29, 2016
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  17. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    You are an idiot. Hitler specifically wrote about his hatred of the Jews in Mein Kampf. Seriously, wtf. Read your history.
  18. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    I'm going ignore the Nazi stuff.
    ---
    What do you guys think about this guy, he seems reasonable to me:
  19. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    I'm not the one who fails to read more than three lines.
  20. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    I read the whole thing, tatsu. The point is you not only ignored what Hitler wrote, you countermanded your own point later. What the **** kind of debate are you running here?

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