Beta Build: 59607

Discussion in 'Support!' started by garat, January 16, 2014.

  1. Slamz

    Slamz Well-Known Member

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    Just had the smoothest 11 planet game I've ever played. Dunno what changed but daaaaamn, that's nice.
  2. Slamz

    Slamz Well-Known Member

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    Definitely liking the balance of this new build.

    Bomber spam: still dangerous but the flak guns can provide really efficient protection. I find it much harder to simply wipe people out with bombers now, though they still work good for attacking incoming armies.

    Ground armies: so much more viable now. The increased factory output makes a huge difference and the teleporters can keep things moving. Pelter nerf was a big help here too.

    Nukes are still just as viable as ever but you'd better think harder about going straight nuke spam since ground attacks are a much more serious threat.

    Navy needs some work on attack movement and firing range. The ships like to stop just out of range (projectile live time?). I think the ships would feel better if their maneuvering was increased while keeping their speed as-is.

    We probably need an orbiting factory that spits out orbital units. Not sure I like queuing up orbital fighters as if they were structures. Doesn't feel unreasonable for satellites but I never need 250 satellites.

    Lots more to say but I need to go drink beer. Definitely a new game in there now.
    drz1 likes this.
  3. Xagar

    Xagar Active Member

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    Flak guns are TA-strong now, I had a few of them vaporize 70+ t2 bombers in an instant. Not sure if that's where they should be, but there you go.
  4. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    My understanding is that's the plan, but the factory just didn't make the build yet.
  5. stormingkiwi

    stormingkiwi Post Master General

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    No way. Speed needs to increase so much. .

    I think bombers don't achieve their MO anymore. They don't attack structures well enough.

    Had a massive think about this today.

    I think I have figured it out, and this is really basic electrical engineering, because I realised we learned about this in school this year.

    Server tick 1, the weapon prepares to fire. Time is zero.

    Server tick 2, the weapon fires. Time is 0.1

    At time 0.104, the weapon "hits" its target which is 20 range away.

    Server tick 3, at time 0.2, the weapon is at 50. The server never knows that it covered the intervening distance or that there was any change in state. As far as it is aware, The weapon never covered the intervening distance between 0 and 50, it just arrived there.
    Last edited: January 19, 2014
  6. bgolus

    bgolus Uber Alumni

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    That is not the issue. It's true the server runs at 10 fps, but that doesn't mean the projectiles are simulated at that rate. Physics updates for unit movement and projectiles can be updated at a higher rate than once every tenth of a second. For example planes were once updated 5 times per server tick, ie: 50 fps. On top of that I believe projectiles do a raytrace from their previous position to their new position after each simulated update to prevent misses like what you describe.

    It's much more likely some known inaccuracies with our aiming code for ballistics.
    cola_colin likes this.
  7. stormingkiwi

    stormingkiwi Post Master General

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    Good. I like being wrong, and I was hoping that such an issue would never be a first year engineering problem.

    So why does it happen? Why does the tank do no damage despite definitely firing ammunition? Is it because there isn't a model? Is the problem instead that there is no object to track the physics on?

    Edit: Personally I like my explanation, because it fits nicely into Zeno's paradoxes that movement is impossible.
  8. Dementiurge

    Dementiurge Post Master General

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    Actually, I've noticed this with every unit. Units aren't able to fire their full highlighted range, and this seems to be more pronounced on small planets. It may also be related to the issue of artillery not shooting when they should.
  9. bgolus

    bgolus Uber Alumni

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    No idea, I'm not the one who's job it is to fix it. It's always possible the problem is a bug that for some reason is causing the behavior you theorised, but in practice it's not supposed to happen. My best guess is there's a bug with projectiles that last less than a single server tick.
  10. stormingkiwi

    stormingkiwi Post Master General

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    Ooh right.

    I should hope not. My theory made me worried about the maximum observable speed in PA. Plus it should affect multiple fast objects that travel too far between server ticks. Nice theory, but truly I don't have the foggiest.

    Cool thanks :)
  11. naginacz

    naginacz Member

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    I found a dirty way to almost indestructible commander.
    Just build some orbital fabrication bots and set the order assist commander. If the opponent does not have orbital fighter is in big trouble.
    I think we do not need such tricks in our game :).

    !2014-01-19_00025.jpg
    elitedanzel and Quitch like this.
  12. pieman2906

    pieman2906 Well-Known Member

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    Orbital is cheap now though, and we are getting a healthier and healthier roster of viable counters to it. Honestly, it's the same situation as using air fabbers against someone who's built no AA, it's their fault for not countering.
  13. naginacz

    naginacz Member

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    I agree that a player who was surprised, made a mistake and has to lose.
    The question is whether such a victory is funny? Not for me.
    Commander supported by orbital fabbers is unnatural and grotesque.
    He can build turrets in a crazy pace. What's more, you'll know that you made a mistake, when there is no rescue for you already.

    For me, the greater importance of a conventional army, the better.
    The smaller importance of super toys and tricks, the better.
  14. Slamz

    Slamz Well-Known Member

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    Just means he needs to destroy more of your economy first.....or take control of space. Still, amusing idea for a later game "commander rush" if you have space superiority...!
  15. kryovow

    kryovow Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
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  16. elitedanzel

    elitedanzel Active Member

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    Oh wow, I can't wait to use this :)
  17. zweistein000

    zweistein000 Post Master General

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    I finally got to play the new patch. Obviously I have some feedback on the matter:

    1. The new patch is wonderful. It fixes a lot of shortcomings of the games and is a refreshing move from the standard meta. I like it. I like it a lot and even though the post may seem to have a lot of negative input not that i actually like the new patch more than I dislike it's shortcomings (also Beta. I'll deal with it). But it is not perfect yet. The lobbies seemed to have slowed down quite a bit and the game now waits for the system to fully load (it waits on connecting to lobby) before you can enter the lobby and chat. Also it tends to lag a lot more even at earlier stages of the game. I have also seen people not able to connect to any games (even 1v1's on tiny maps).

    2. I'm gonna start going into specific stuff now. The first thing the comes to mind is the anchor. I believe then it's place should be replaced by the avenger and the anchor should be moved up to t2 (aforementioned units should be balanced accordingly). Not only does this make more sense, but the current position of anchor on the tech tree overlaps with the umbrella. I find myself using anchors + avengers a lot more then umbrellas + avengers. I fear for the umbrella should anchor stay where it is.

    3. The inferno and the other short range assault tank. I think that inferno should go down the road Knight described in his post. Otherwise I stand by the fact that we don't need specialised "bags of hp" in the tank factory. Tanks themselves should be these "bags of hp". As for the t2 one. I believe that rather than having 2 flame tanks (we only need 2 regular tanks because they form the backbone of the army. Non-regular units shouldn't be doubled in the tech tree IMO) that unit should have it's range increased to that of a T1 tank and given the tank hunter job - Preferably with medium ranged, slow firing, but strong line attacks (shots that pierce through units in a line). Also I don't think slow speed and short range go together well, no matter how much you buff everything else. On the other side I love the mobile artillery now. they function excellently even when mixed in with the tanks to provide that AOE attack for clearing waves of enemy units. They are the assault gun I was looking for.

    4. The stargate teleporter works wonders. It is really a game changer and a good addition to the game, exactly what we needed, but there is still that lingering fear. While I see orbital transports having the role to establish beachheads (invasion of Normandy style form spaaaaace!). I do think that once we get unit cannons the current role and the current techthree place teleporter has should be switched with the unit cannon. The teleporters themselves can remain functioning the way they do now, but with the unit canon being a T1 means of transport, but limited to nearby bodies (such ad the moons and planets only if the get close enough on their orbit - invasion windows) and orbital transports being there only to invade (I recommend the name Invader transport here), the stargates teleporters should be much higher and costlier for the sheer power of the mobility they provide. But, like I said, I don't mind them working the same way and being the costlier, easier to use, infinite range, two way and T2 version of a unit canon. But currently we need them to stay where they are because we don't have unit canons and transports yet and the teleporters bring so much dynamic gameplay to the game I can't see the game without such a unit early in the tech tree.

    5. The naval game has been broken a bit. I believe that while a speed nerf was perhaps necessary the current speed is way too slow and this has made naval centered planets an annoyance since it will take forever for your ships to get anywhere. Also the fact that naval is planet bound still poses a great problem as people tend to avoid expanding to planets that are naval oriented if they haven't started on one. I believe having the ability to build naval teleporters, nava unit canon and having the astraeus the ability to move naval units is the way to go here.
    Also no subs anymore. :( I'll be expecting their return some time post release.

    6. The gunship. My fears have been realised. It is inferior to the T2 bomber by the time you can build them, mainly because T2 bombers are great at defeating huge blobs of units (and I'd like it to stay that way). I still believe that gunships should be made T1 and be used as harassment units while T1 bombers get the role of structure destroyers.

    7. Walls, pelters and holkings. I love all the changes here - they are all useful now, but not op, also the annoying pelter aren't the ultimate defense anymore. They are only there to thin out large blobs, but can easily be rushed if build alone. I believe that the holkings AOE should be doubled for it's current rate of fire and walls should have slightly less HP for their current cost. Also I love the new advanced laser defense. It has exactly what it needed: more ROF less damage, because before it would overkill by a lot and be inferior to the T1 double laser defense. The flak is boner inducing on it's own. No longer do I need to fear enemy T2 bombers sniping my commander when I'm not looking. And with the early orbital play we have now turtling is viable, but not boring (if you actually turtle to achieve something - like orbital rush or Tech up, rather than turtling and sitting in your base waiting for judgment bay).

    TL;DR

    - game is great, but lag ha increased
    - anchor needs to witch places with avenger
    - Infernos and T2 "bag of HP" tanks are not viable/needed IMO and should be reworked
    - Teleporters are fine currently but should be moved to T2 when we get unit canons, unit cannons should be T1
    - Naval need work and orbital transportation
    - Gunships need work, T2 bombers are better at attacking units and structures by the time you get T2 air.
    - Static defenses are great now. Holkins needs a tiny bit of work, but nothing feels too OP/UP. Walls maybe.
    Quitch likes this.
  18. ace63

    ace63 Post Master General

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    Is anyone else experiencing a really slow ui this patch? It is not like the framerate is going down, but the ui seems to be lagging behind when there are more than 50 units on the screen.
    When I move the mouse over the build menu, it takes 1-2 seconds for the selection to be highlighted.
  19. zweistein000

    zweistein000 Post Master General

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    Yes.
  20. zweistein000

    zweistein000 Post Master General

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    I believe that Orbital fabbers either shouldn't be able to interact with stuff on planet or should have to enter the air laval (like astraeus does now) in order to construct Teleporters and repair commanders.
    MCXplode likes this.

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