Balance Problems

So make it do zero damage and keep the current cooldown.

See how well that flies with the assassins.

I'd rather tie it with the grapple cooldown so that when a lunge is used, the grapple can't be used for 2 seconds, this will prevent insta-grapples while allowing the Assassin the ability to kill bots quickly. Nonetheless, if I want to kill a pro, I can simply switch off the cloak while behind him.

Better: Reduce the damage it does to pros.
I only use lunge to close the gap into a grapple when fighting. Tanks are the only thing where I actually need the full damage to kill them.

Making it do zero damage cripples the assassin in it's job.

You won't get everything.

The main justification for the charge cooldown change was to make it a choice: get in or get away (or use for damage).

The assassin still works for both along with 15 other escape skills should one fail.

My best suggestion is to link it with dash. You get fast recharge but limited uses per time. And it makes dash a viable skill to invest in, unlike now where it's totally pointless because of free lunge.

EDIT: worst -> works, word choice woo.

I think charge/lunge speeds should be linked to player speed.

The assault and the tank should NOT have the same charge speed. Charging adds way more momentum to the tank than it does to the assault. Also lunging while in dash mode should effect the lunge itself. Lunge should not be a free sprint.

A charge/lunge should add x amount times your current movement speed to your speed during the duration of the charge/lunge. Dash should add x amount times your movement to your speed while dashing. Doing both should stack.

An alternative way would be that it just adds speed. Your speed goes up x amount while charging/lunging(possibly different numbers) and up x speed for dashing. Still with stack.

Assassins current lunge speed is 3000. Any idea what the dash speed is? Numbers on the tank/assault charge speed would be nice as well.

Read as: When the most mobile class in the game gets ambushed by the slowest in the game, clearly it is a balance issue and not just a stupid decision, and therefore I should be given more mobility on top of the absurd amount I already have.

I am not arguing against lunge grappling, I think it is a good (if a bit frustrating) mechanic. I am arguing against lunge face grappling. Lunge damage is fine, it's face grapple that needs fixing. The point of an assassin getting kills is ASSASSINation. lunging into someones face isn't exactly stealthy, it shouldn't be such an easy kill.

Lunge should either be tied in to dash cooldown (so it isn't a free skill), have it's cooldown increased a bit so that they can't lunge in grapple lunge out immediately after. It would still allow them to lunge in and out of combat, it would just give them a slight delay, making lunging into a group of multiple enemies a nearly suicidal choice, as it should be.

I wouldn't mind having EVERYONE's base health raised to keep them relatively in the same standings healthwise but keep the damage the same.

Lolsin discussion... If only they had renamed the class so people would think that her job was not to ASSASSINate everything she sees. Lunge Grapple is totally fine the way it is. also, to the high level players out there who are frustrated by sins, remember this. A bad assassin can almost ALWAYS get a kill or two in any given game. I will be the first to say that it sucks **** when it happens to you, but it does happen.

That being said, if a sin gets a grab off in your base without any other pressure, she should be dead. This is not a matter of how mobile she is. Basically every class has a way to kill the sin straight out of her grab. So, while she could theoretically get away after a bad grab, in reality, it falls on your teammates to kill her afterward. Sins are not broken. No class is really that strong.

In my humble opinion, it is the maps that give advantages to the classes. Some classes just play better on some maps. AND SOME MAPS ARE GARBAGE OLOLOL back to the shadows with me...

I don't know what the charge speed is on the assault/tank because its not a flat number like dash, its an impulse momentum type thing, I think that is because you can charge in mid air, but you can't dash in mid air.

The speed when dashing is I BELIEVE 150% of what your move speed is. So if you have only the base move speed of 650 then dashing would give you 975 move speed. If you had gold speed endorsement (+100 move speed) then it would be 1125.

The Assault's base move speed is 600.
Assassin's is 650
Tank's is 500
Gunner is 550
Support is 600
Sniper is 650

At level 1 the assault's charge is slower than the tank's, at level 2 it is tied with the tanks, at level 3 it is faster than the tanks. However in ALL of these scenarios the Tank's charge regenerates significantly faster (about 25% faster)

Impulse has nothing at all to do with speed in this context.

Impulse only represents how much force is applied to whatever it hits (bots, players, whatever) and is used to calculate knockback distance and height.

Other skills and weapons have impulse amounts associated as well, it only represents the amount of push it applies.

Does anyone know the speed numbers then?

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that simply. Some classes rely more on abilities and burst damage than other classes. For instance, the longer a sniper takes to kill you the more time you have to close the distance and kill him.

Put it this way, if it takes five seconds for the sniper to kill you from range and two seconds for you to kill a sniper in close range, then you need to close the distance in three seconds. If you double health, you need to close the distance in six seconds, meaning you can engage from further away.

Obviously that isn't a literal example, it doesn't work that simply, but the point is that everything doesn't scale equally with health.

I think he meant a flat base increase. IE increase every class base health by 100. It would serve more to make it so that light classes don't get instagibbed by so many different things if they don't run armor endorsements

"Teh ASSALT waz neffed! PLX Neff the otehrs teuu!"

Sorry im just in that mood today. xD

Serious note:
I believe the current assault nerf is perfect. No longer can I achieve kills just by bomb spamming, and guess what? Accuracy endorsement has recieved a proper PURPOSE! It always had but now more than ever considering players using the assault needs to aim more to achieve their kill.

I don't believe a rebalance of anything is needed, whoever is balancing the game now (probably Scathis?) they're doing a great job at it.

Accuracy endorsement always had a purpose. Certain endorsements are better than others on certain classes. You can take clipsize on Assassin but it wont be nearly as useful as it is on Sniper or gunner. Accuracy was very good for the Gunner, and I know that a number of snipers took accuracy as it was very good for SMG.

The thing is that this major nerf pushes the Assault from being a skill heavy class to being more like a highly mobile but much less effective gunner. His weapons are simply not his strong suit, never have been. His rifle is only a little bit better than the snipers SMG stats wise (same base DPS) his grenade launcher is average at everything but good at nothing. Its a poor bot killer, poor pro killer, and poor turret killer. It is however good for harassment, and good enough to get the job done with a little bit of effort on every single one of those areas. It does however fall short when compared to the railgun for long range harassment.

There is literally very little reason to pick the assault over the Tank right now. The tank is better at killing the money ball (thanks to being MUCH better at building juice.) better at killing bots, better at killing turrets, better at killing pros, and has a more reliable escape mechanism (~25% faster regen with the exact same speed, range, and damage. But it also does knock down and daze instead of freezing you in place for a grapple that may get you killed if using it as an escape.)

There is only two reasons to ever pick the assault over the tank right now. Jetpack lets him survive ring outs much easier, and jet pack makes him impossible to grapple. However the fact that the tank has NEARLY DOUBLE the assault's health in addition to all of the other factors makes the choice pretty much straight up in Tank's favor.

The overall nerf to the assault would be fine if a similar nerf was given to the tank's charge and the assassin's lunge. Maybe not the exact same, but similar nerfs to their charges. OR if the bomb nerf was changed to actually increase his regen speed when the bomb is not deployed, rather than giving him a MAJOR nerf to its regen speed at level 3 coupled with the fact it lost a huge amount of versatility as more than just an offensive tool.

This is like, every post, ever...in this thread and other assault whining threads

People can't handle the fact that Assault just got a higher skill floor.

True he got a higher skill floor, but he also got a lower skill ceiling thanks to the bomb recharge change.

Now most of this I dismissed as unbelievable as I frequently kill both gunners, tanks and other classes except assault when I play assault. You have SO MANY OPTIONS as an assault, you can attack from insanely weird angles, instantly flank your unaware opponent, easy access to the annihilator or disruptors, you can strike and flee at the click of a button!
How is that a problem? Sure run into a tanks or gunners face and you're begging to die, hence why you use hit & run tactics constantly. I had no problem whatsoever playing assault before the patch, after the patch... Still no problem, just got to dismiss my old "Bomb Spam" tactic and im good to go. Assault is still really deadly with Gold RoF, Silver Accuracy and Bronze Skill Regen.

vids of you owning it up with the new assault please, cos you sure talk a good game

... Really you're gonna pull that card out of your ***?

Nevertheless you can't argue with my points as efficient, since I'd say any good assault player uses flanking tactics over headrush into a gunner/tanks face tactics.

It was predicted long ago during Beta that the community would become like this, and certainly it became true.