Balance Discussion Meeting

Besides all of those that don't attend that and say: No, we don't want what those over there want!

Right, I'm about to start sending out PMs to everyone in this thread who has expressed interest.

Reminder: if you wish to attend you will need the Teamspeak IP. If you wish to attend and don't receive a PM from me in the next 20 mins or so with the IP, please get in touch with me ASAP.

Copy and paste of the newsletter text:

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Hi,

Here's your bulletin about the upcoming balance discussion this evening. Reminder: it will be at 1830hrs UTC - make sure you correctly convert to your local time! I'd very much appreciate it if you could turn up about 5-10 minutes early to make sure we're able to be settled and start promptly.

The Teamspeak IP is [REDACTED] - please kindly keep this confidential.

This meeting will be recorded and livestreamed. I'll be providing links in the OP. Please make sure that you have the agenda to hand, as this will serve as a guide for the discussion.

I look forward to seeing you tonight!

Best,

TWC

Yeah, I'm willing to join this. Please PM.

Sorry for missing it! Fell asleep, not my fault.

Recording has been added to the OP!

Many thanks to all who attended. It was a very constructive meeting and I enjoyed everyone's contributions.

I did ask Knight if he might consider doing to this recording what he did for his Livestream Index. I can't recally whether he accepted or declined - either way there will be a write up in due course!

It depends how in-depth it needs to be, the thing about the Live Streams is that they are very clear cut, each feature starting and ending, answering specific questions, I might just take the agenda and rework it a bit and use those as the link points, it won't be very specific, but we weren't either and easily flowed to and fro around the smaller topics/ideas and such anyways.

Time time I think I'mma try keep track of the times we switch topics more actively so I don't have to go through the entire thing again to pull the times! xD

Mike

It is done! It's rather broad in some areas, but we were kind of all over the place trying to deal with multiple topics all at once, if we had done it point by point it would have been over 4 hours long! xD In the Future with better structuring of the topic and planning on my part these should get easier to do and be more organized.

Balance Discussion 21st September 2013

Introduction

Basic and Advanced Tiers

What should define the two?
‘Intermediate’ tier: things not buildable by Commander - what sort of thing & why?
Orbital basic tier? What would this entail? Implications? Perhaps ‘intermediate’?


Game Pacing

Hitpoint to Damage Ratio: Where is the sweet-spot?
Planet Killers: How quickly could Planet Killing technology (Mega-asteroids and Deathstars) be fielded?


Micro

Is this a valid consideration for balance? (e.g. current bots vs tanks)
Should there be some units which specialise in micro-heavy combat?


Layers

Naval, Air, Ground, Orbital (and beyond) and their Interplay.
How interlinked should the separate layers be?
Should each layer be specialised towards a particular theatre of war, or be a self-contained, fully fledged collection of units and/or structures?
How many other layers interact with the Orbital Layer and how do they do so?


Movement Between Bodies - Invasion and Defence (ideas only)

How expensive / time consuming will it be to transport large armies?
How to pragmatically and effectively defend against invasion without causing stalemates?


Large Scale Destruction (Nukes and greater) and their Countermeasures

What role should LSD weapons play in battle?
How often should we see their use, and how easily should they be countered?
What form(s) should those counters take?
How to prevent LSD weapons being main focus of late game & keep early units viable?


Open floor discussion

Regarding the Advanced Bot Factory
Engineers Repairing Commanders
In terms of Unit Variety
Basic to Advanced Transition
More of these 'meetings'?

Thanks for your help Knight! And thanks everyone for participating. I'm fairly certain we can have meetings like this in the future as well.

Ha, I screwed up and thought it was 11:30 PM mountain time rather than AM... I just listened to the recording and I definitely think that there were many important, intelligent points made here. Certainly, I think the think-tank effect was positive here, where by combining opinions, all the debaters could lay down reasons for and against various ideas, and come to general consensus on many issues.

In any case, that was a very informative listen, and I would highly recommend the devs to at least check out the discussion over the role of bots (I believe in the micro section and the advanced bot factory portion of the open floor section), as well as the balance of nukes section and the pacing section. And I hope that I can attend the next one

Points of particular interest, for those with less time! Only a quick skim; please point out any I've missed.
(note - names are based on my own recollection and voice recognition, if I've made a mistake and misattributed please let me know!)

[00:04:55] Units that are too specialised might go against the principle of minimising of micro - WPMarshall

[00:11:03] Every effort should be made to ensure that units do not become obsolete - this increases player choice - Ghostflux

[00:12:47] There must be more than one 'counter' to a particular unit to avoid 'Rock Paper Scissors' - TheWrongCat, MasterOfRoflness & YourLocalMadSci

[00:22:33] Scouting planets before revealing their resources? - Ghostflux

[00:24:04] Full discussion on durability of units in battle

[00:39:19] Full discussion on the use of micro as a balancing tool

[00:55:22] Should orbital be self-contained? - Nanolathe

[01:18:30] NO NO NO NO NO - Everyone

[01:21:18] Commander repairing - Nebbyy

[01:29:41] Price of Adv. factories vs Adv. fabricators - Ghostflux

I'm going to be really naughty and necro this thread a little.

I've watched this again in its entirety (yes, all 95 minutes of it) and I actually think that a lot of the points raised are still relevant as we move into the balancing phase of the game properly this time.

For those of you with less time on your hands, mine and KNight's summaries should help to give you a brief overview, I hope.

Also, is there any interest in holding another one of these? I promise to try and keep it a bit shorter this time.

Holy hell yes.

I think we just need to keep it a little bit more focused on one topic this time.

I'd also like to jump in with this as well. I find this topic to be vital to PA's survival in the long term - and I'd like to be a part of it. That said, I'll be making points towards what is the best way to ease noobs into the game without scaring the living bejesus out of them, what FOO strategies we should keep or remove, etc. The deep end balancing for competitive play is better left to people like KNight and a few others who have extensive experience on the subject.

i wouldn't mind jumping in on something like this actually. i know i'm probably not a "reputable gentleman of intelect" on this game, but i' more than willing to jump on an oportunity to express opinion in a decent setting.

might as well go ahead and forewarn what i'll probably end up touching on:

Air vs Anti-Air: the delicate balance (aka T2 bombers vs Flak cannons, for the most part)

Tanks vs. Bots: where we currently stand in balancing the two ground types

Artillery and Game-Enders: what should (or should not) be counterable

Orbital: where it stands, where it should go.

Planetary Invasion: what works, what's missing, and what we know is coming.


granted, most of this will be from opinion, since i probably haven't hounded this game like some of you. i just want my voice to be heard, ya know?

I would be interested

same here!

I'm in.

Any suggestions for a time? I think Sunday evening GMT (mid day in the US) would probably be a good time, although I'm sure people could be flexible.

can't make it this sunday. but I can probably do a weekly evening of some sort