B8factor and Gameg1rl Commentated Replays

Discussion in 'Videos And Replays!' started by b8factor, January 7, 2015.

  1. Alpha2546

    Alpha2546 Post Master General

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    I'm glad you posted a video where a nuke is being used for defense. @tvinita @scathis we really need a mobile anti nuke launcher since there isn't really a counter when playing on these big maps. The only counter is sending t2 fabbers and building anti nukes along the way (Which is a tricky and expensive counter). Same goes for invading other planets. The oppononent would just nuke the spot where I finally got a tele and army up and running.

    While it certainly is highly effective using nukes like this (don't get me wrong I'm not blaming you for doing it @b8factor it is 9 out of 10 times effective to quickly end the game) I am really against this type of gameplay simply because it'll create stalemates and because I really like annihilating with huge army's in these type of ffa's.

    I really liked watching this game haha. This truly shows typical FFA playstyle with making packs and backstabbing other players haha. Poor @KillerKiwiJuice. Getting killed before the real fight would start.

    I think that I'm not going to join the FFA's anymore :p . @gameg1rl playstyle is making me scared with all those ground units. Just kidding. Can't wait to do a game again. Thanks for sharing!
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  2. b8factor

    b8factor Active Member

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    I really enjoyed this reply Alpha! You touched on many points that I also have similar opinions on. I really enjoy FFA style play for many many reasons, but I will not go into that... for the fear of digressing off point. I am a follower of Sun-tzu's "Art of War" principles when playing FFA, because they produce more winning games for me.; i.e. "The war should be fought swiftly to avoid economic losses." - In a FFA, conserving the army as a deterrent, or to use on another campaign increases the chances of winning against multiple fronts. So using stratagem, politics, and spies is preferable and engaging large armies a last result. *More to say on this later not related to this point.

    But on the flip side of that same coin I also really enjoy large battles! In this game I was happy with BLUR's choice because it meant my chances of winning increased; and I was also equally disappointed that @KillerKiwiJuice 's and my battle was cut short before we could engage. The strategist in me approves; the warrior did not.

    Kiwi and I both made some very GOOD strategic moves, but eventually stalemated our individual War. It should be noted that my opinion is that Kiwi performed better than I in Macro and expansion locations. So all things equal, if Blur was not a factor, I believe I would have lost the long war to Kiwi.
    NUKES
    I could not agree more. I believe in late game this DOES force more stalemates in large maps due to the attrition rate of venturing into deep enemy territory. I am unsure of how to handle this. On one side does it need to be handled? Is it intended game play to force another layer of tactics and strategy? e.g. Switching from ground to air; if the system permits using a moon or metal-planet to crack a base?

    Well, given the experiences I have had with PA, I would would say "no" to the points above because at that point in a game things already become laggy, so why implement game-play that is going to drag out and force even more unit massing and potential lag?

    Does the nuke need to be nerfed some so that it simply damages units severely but not kill them? In Supreme Commander nukes were used defensively as well but the sheer size of the maps and armies meant that it was not as crippling a blow. It may only kill a Company (100-200 units). In PA, as it stands, a nuke can destroy a full Battalion (500-600 units). If the nuke was scaled back for the game it may still be used in a defensive nature without being so annihilating. I am sure there would be lots of controversy around this... haha

    Do we need mobile Anti-Nukes? I like this idea the best... a mobile unit that, as a defender, I have to scout out and deal with before it gets close to my base. A lot of testing would have to be done to balance this as nukes are VERY expensive. Would the mobile Anti-Nuke now be able to be teleported or transported to which ever position best suits me, while a nuke is stagnate and the user can not direct which way they fly at an intended target?

    All interesting things to think about!

    * Note on game play preferences of individuals: It seems, and I have to be careful how I word this because I do not want to put words in other people's mouths, some people prefer ladder style, or 1v1 style play and feel it is the true measure of a RTS player's abilities. Some people prefer FFA style were plotting, stratagem, politics, and spying ALONG with tactical combat determine the outcome. I have been in FFA's, and had opponents get frustrated and leave because (decided to use air dominance, decided to fall back on a previous pack, went nukes instead of ground force, and so on). I have even had some notable players comment, "NO skill in FFA, just too variable" as they perished. I believe they were just frustrated and preferred a more purist approach to combat, mono e mono.

    I think it is important to remember that different people can draw different entertainment out of the same game, e.g. Planetary Annihilation. And it is that very fact that makes the game fun to play for many. Small map or large, Rush Tactics or Turtle, 1v1 or FFA... they all use the same programmed game mechanics but can be used differently in each situation to achieve the same end goal, (I am split on closure for this last sentence... "To WIN" or "To be Entertained")! haha

    B8factor
    Last edited: January 28, 2015
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  3. Alpha2546

    Alpha2546 Post Master General

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    A well typed out response which ofcourse deserves a nice big fat reply.

    Sun tzu's art of war. I've never heard about that one to be honest. Checking the wiki its all about efficiently and quickly killing the enemy (even before the real battle starts).

    Exactly: As soon as you go in unknown terrority you're pretty much screwed (on these one planet FFA maps especially). But hey performance isn't there yet to give you the planet smashing possibility ( I think?). If I have those options then I definately would have no problem getting up some halleys to smash the other base (though its not something I prefer:oops:) . On the other hand I did this once and the other player could get away ( through tele's or pelican). I do admit I was on a weak side so I could not gather enough intel to know where his comm was or what would have been a better target.

    I'd love having an anti mobile nuke unit. The enemy needs to scout for that specific unit and create a plan to take it out efficiently to kill my army efficiently (which I know you like). Thats why I also can't wait for the new balance changes that @tvinita has created in PTE. Orbital will come more in play with SSX snipes and the bluehawks will have a more viable role countering it. BTW I don't think the nuke needs a nerf in damage size. I just wish it to be able counter it some way.

    situation
    should I go tanks build shellers and outrange the opponents army? > possible strategy however as soon as the other player has an SXX it can counter the army completely.

    The commander not being able to be moved by a pelican is now I think about it also a right choice ( in my opinion ofcource). You won't be able to quickly dodge the bullet and go back to your safe spot.

    You might have lost the battle if Blur didn't come in however you still had that nuke in your base waiting to get fired (right? not sure though). What if you 'baited' his army with your army and nuked his whole groundforce and then moved in. Its a strategy that probly would win you the battle against kiwi since he can't counter that.

    Yes there are ofcourse always players that won't like what a different player does. Everyone has there own preference of how to kill and opponent (for you an efficiënt kill I think and for me overrunning a base with a massive army). I won't lie I like battling mono e mono but in an FFA there just is no such thing. The thing that makes it worth for me is the rewarding feeling coming out of a shithole ( where you focused on one player and backstabbed by another and still survive and maybe even win the game) On the other hand it also depends on how I feel ( will I go for the true victory or experimenting builds or just yolo my way through the game :p ).

    Interesting that people would say no skill in FFA. All your videos (and my own experience) show otherwise. How come that I most of the time see the same players lategame still alive. Ofcourse you also need some luck in an FFA but I think good FFA players try to rule out all kind of ways to get killed and increase there luck in some way (by creating a pact as an example or exploiting specific moments :p )

    Owyeah two last wishes from me in this post. @jables could the chronocam also save and show the chat cause it adds something to the immersion in these type of games and don't forget @b8factor area mine building command ( not circular but square mine building).


    Owyeah something to be noted from the video btw which I completely forgot to mention. Vanguards are the true minefield killing machines! They'll spot the mines and eat em away! No radar needed.
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  4. b8factor

    b8factor Active Member

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    Alpha, "(for you an efficiënt kill I think and for me overrunning a base with a massive army)."

    I really do like them both but in the end, the desire to WIN forces me to make the choice I think gives me the best chance in doing so.... entertainment or win? I always have to make a choice.... it is fun when i can acheive both!


    Alpha, "The commander not being able to be moved by a pelican is now I think about it also a right choice ( in my opinion ofcource). You won't be able to quickly dodge the bullet and go back to your safe spot."

    Wait... WHAT! Dang it... I have several games were I wanted to entertain the audience by sneaking my commander into an enemy base (through heavily defended lines) and snipe his commander with mine! I have succeed several times but have been waiting until I could do it to every player in the FFA before posting.... that is going to make the task infinitely more difficult!

    Alpha, "Owyeah two last wishes from me in this post. @@jables could the chronocam also save and show the chat cause it adds something to the immersion in these type of games and don't forget @@b8factor area mine building command ( not circular but square mine building)."

    Indeed I have wanted chat in chrono many times. I even though about recording the live game and overlaying the chat into the replay but post processing and recording both games is just too inefficient for the end result.
    yes, PLEASE mines in strips... I NEED THIS, I am wasting so much metal and in game objects trying to achieve the desired mine locations!

    Alpha, "Owyeah something to be noted from the video btw which I completely forgot to mention. Vanguards are the true minefield killing machines! They'll spot the mines and eat em away! No radar needed."

    Okay so I was wondering in the replay HOW she saw the mines! I could not figure it out.... i did not know vanguards saw them, good to know! @gameg1rl
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  5. DeathByDenim

    DeathByDenim Post Master General

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    This is already possible. You "just" need to modify the tiny little file "media/pa/units/land/land_mine/land_mine.json". If you change the "area_build_type" to "Line" instead of "Sphere", you can build mines in lines as you would pgens and such. But you said "strips", which I took to mean lines with a thickness. For that you can use "area_build_pattern". That is, for strips with a width of four mines, you would add
    Code:
    "area_build_pattern":[[0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]]
    (But keep area_build_type set to Sphere)
    Adjust the number of 1's in the middle for the desired thickness. All of the zeros are there to not repeat the pattern in the perpendicular direction. (reference)

    The best solution would of course be to stick the new file in a mod and shadow the original, but this is a quick fix. :)


    Full new file:
    Code:
    {"display_name":"!LOC(units:land_mine.message):Land Mine","description":"!LOC(units:land_mine_detonates_when_enemy_units_are_in_proximity.message):Land mine- Detonates when enemy units are in proximity.","strategic_icon_priority":3,"max_health":5,"build_metal_cost":20,"wreckage_health_frac":0.0,"spawn_layers":"WL_AnyHorizontalGroundOrWaterSurface","area_build_type":"Sphere","area_build_pattern":[[0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]],"area_build_separation":1.0,"unit_types":["UNITTYPE_Basic","UNITTYPE_Land","UNITTYPE_Defense","UNITTYPE_CombatFabBuild","UNITTYPE_CombatFabAdvBuild"],"physics":{"type":"Structure","shape":"Box","radius":1,"push_class":255,"allow_pushing":false,"push_sideways":false,"allow_underground":false,"ignore_collisions":true},"recon":{"observable":{"layer":"surface_and_air","ignore_sight":true},"observer":{"items":[{"layer":"surface_and_air","channel":"radar","shape":"sphere","radius":2}]}},"tools":[{"spec_id":"/pa/units/land/land_mine/land_mine_tool_weapon.json","aim_bone":"bone_root","muzzle_bone":"bone_root"}],"model":[{"layer":"WL_LandHorizontal","filename":"/pa/units/land/land_mine/land_mine.papa"},{"layer":"WL_WaterSurface","filename":"/pa/units/sea/sea_mine/sea_mine.papa"}],"events":{"build_complete":{"audio_cue":"/SE/Build_Complete/barrier"},"died":{"audio_cue":"/SE/Death/barrier","effect_spec":"/pa/units/land/bot_bomb/bot_bomb_ammo_explosion.pfx"}},"mesh_bounds":[4.0,4.0,1.0],"TEMP_texelinfo":2.37699}
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  6. b8factor

    b8factor Active Member

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    Oh man that is awesome, THANKS!
    gameg1rl likes this.
  7. Bob620

    Bob620 New Member

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    Can't wait for the next video or two ;)
  8. Alpha2546

    Alpha2546 Post Master General

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    You backstabbing Dox blobbing maniac. I never trust You again :p
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  9. Bob620

    Bob620 New Member

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    Please, I just left my factories on *By accident ;)*....., and had to go for a few minutes, didn't want to die without killing someone with what I had :D
  10. b8factor

    b8factor Active Member

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    @DeathByDenim
    Getting the mine layer to lay in strips worked perfectly, thanks much! I have a couple more questions.
    1. After adjusting the mine layer to a Line I then thought, "now I want to set the AA turret to a Sphere". It is more often in a base I want these scattered all around and in between buildings to guard from air raids and it would be more efficient for me to draw a large box versus 4-8 lines of turrets. I did not find the same setting, area_build_type, for the AA turret.

    2. Adjusting client settings looks nice but what kind of safe guards are in place to prevent people from exploiting this? I am assuming people can not change heath of damage?
  11. DeathByDenim

    DeathByDenim Post Master General

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    area_build_type defaults to "Line", so if it's not specified, then it's a line. You can just add the area_build_type anywhere in the file. You may want to adjust the area_build_separation as well if you want them spaced closer together.

    You can't exploit it. All you can change is graphical/UI stuff. Functional stuff is controlled by the server. If you change the health nothing would happen. Well, maybe the tooltip would show the wrong info. If you want to change health, you would have to place the modified file in a server mod, but then of course everybody has it (assuming you are the host).
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  12. b8factor

    b8factor Active Member

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    Planetary Annihilation #16 "Dawn of the Dox" Commentated Replay
    When I first started playing PA I had noticed many people doing DOX with Air builds. Then that was answered by MASS ant with t2 bot mixtures. I then started to experiment with answering that with large t2 vehicle armies with great success. Now I am seeing the DOX air come abck and combat the t2 vehicles, at least early game. I LOVE RTS games, so much fun!



    Commanders:
    @b8factor
    @gameg1rl
    @Bob620
    @chillspine
    @klipp
    @Alpha2546
    @class_a_irb_kennedy
    @keeperkeeper
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  13. b8factor

    b8factor Active Member

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    Planetary Annihilation #17 "EMPIRE" Commentated Replay
    First game on the NEW BUILD(77443)! Yay!
    I get see-sawed in this game from one side to the other. I have to resort to making a pack with the devil!. Let's see how that turns out for me?



    Commanders:
    @b8factor
    @gameg1rl
    @fuckingponysman
    @rg138
    @jlord6688
    @aszeal
    @RedsTallboy
    @kidzer86
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  14. b8factor

    b8factor Active Member

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    Planetary Annihilation Tool Tip #1 brought to you by Gameg1rl and the Letter 'M'"

    The One Minute Tip Clip



    @DeathByDenim
    @gameg1rl
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  15. Bob620

    Bob620 New Member

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    Lesson One in Boboligy


    That game was all around sloppy and I was gone or out of game fro a lot of it :p

    -First off, I did not got for dox intentionally that game, I normally make a few factories of each type and let it mass up, no matter the unit, however that game I saw that @gameg1rl was right next to me, @b8factor was above me, and Alpha was to the other side, and that made me worry and build a lot more factories then normal.

    -Secondly I love economy. By "Love Economy", I mean I love to destroy others' economy, its just too nice of a way to hinder them.

    -Third: I only build(Around) 6 Air Fabbers, 1-4 T2 Air Fabbers, and anything else when I need it or when the normal ones die.

    -Fourth(I keep adding these as I go >.>): I did not micro manage at all that game, I just wanted to overwhelm everyone with dox after it worked on b8 :p

    Giving away all my strategies ^

    When I attacked b8, I was attacking because he was b8, I have dealt with him enough to know that if he gives you an opening, take it :p(Helped that I hadn't been attack yet because of a truce with @Alpha2546 , and yes I was taking the metal in b8's base but Alpha came in and killed it all, had to make more Fabbers). However after I had taken out b8 I had to leave for 5-10 minutes, and had a larger army and I wanted to use it before I left and(I thought) would die.
    My stratagy for Alpha was a bit crude, send in all my army at once with the dox and air coming to destroy the outer defenses, army, and a large portion of his economy, and then have the T2 tanks and extra dox clean up his Commander. Once that worked I ran off and let stuff build up.

    When I came back, expecting to be dead and to watch the rest of the game, I saw that I had a nice sized army, and went to build more economy. LUCKY ME GAMEGIRL DECIDED TO ATTACK JUST AFTER I GOT BACK <3 When she attacked, my plan was to take out her with my ground force, and upon failing with the first force, I simply went siege mode with T2 air and wanted to snipe all her economy, then slowly push in while avoiding as much AA as I could(I made some bad moves that got my air destroyed a few times here >.>).

    After taking out GameGirl and Purple being killed, I saw that red was a big threat, but was majorly distracted, I did not pay attention to utilizing my Air and by doing that killed them all very fast, and I saw so dang afraid of those Shellers he had in his base I didn't just want to take my dox in, bad Idea. And once he had taken out most of my army and came at me, I wasn't worried about him bringing air, so I made lots of bombers. Well, that didn't work out for me, I knew i was dead as soon as I saw them.

    Looking back now, I think I have progressed from that game so much. I am looking to utilize my army better then I did and handle my economy and Fabbers(hopefully) better. I should have had mroe then the 4 T2 Air Fabbers that I had for most of the end game, I should have been making more economy the entire time, and been building both economy and nukes to both protect myself and to push at him.

    Overall I think it was an ok game for the fact that I was gone for a portion of it, and distracted by many things the rest of it. And with that I must say: GG @keeperkeeper, I hope to fight you again and redeem myself. :D

    I hope this gave everyone a look at what I do and don't do, and help those who want to demolish me, I only have one final note to put down for those who DO want to kill me, Don't expect the same strategy twice...., nor for me to attack you without reason, I'm generally a nice guy when it comes to taking land. :p
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  16. Bob620

    Bob620 New Member

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    And then of course if you ask @fuckingponysman and @corgiarmy about the ONE game we had on the map I made, I am better at holding out at sieges with me VS 2 people, one going all orbital and the other nuking me and building giant ground armies, but Lag and Time always win in the end, my plan to take out Pony's ground forces and to kill all his lasers worked though *Evil Laughter* :D
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  17. b8factor

    b8factor Active Member

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    HAHA I KNEW you were AFK for a while… think I even said as much in the video. Man that DOX platoon just ate me up! Did you see your attack and Alpha’s at the same time… and I thought that was GameG1rl at that position. That is one I get for ASSuming!
    -B8
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  18. b8factor

    b8factor Active Member

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    Planetary Annihilation #19 "Turtle Power" Commentated Replay
    I decide to play Turtle this round....



    Commanders:
    @b8factor
    @gameg1rl
    @rg138
    @blurr
    @nucleardawn
    @theflyingpig
    @bayronxassassin
    @thetranssexualempire
  19. Bob620

    Bob620 New Member

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    Yeah, I did see that after the fact. Honestly at the time I attacked you I just didn't like that you were so close to me, no idea you were in battle with Alpha, nor that you were attempting to take more mex until you said it in chat :p
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  20. b8factor

    b8factor Active Member

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