Assault

You have it wrong, thats what the GUNner class is for. It has bigger, more powerful guns, and sub par skills, because it is focused on the GUN part. Assault, on the other hand, is a highly skill dependent class. Any other class (minus support) could function just fine with all of it's skills removed, but assault would be a worthless PoS class without them.

SKILL DEPENDENCY. HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITHOUT HIS SKILLS

Minus support, assault is the WORST bot killer. He has the LOWEST long range damage (rail gun is better, shurikens are better, mortar is better, and sniper rifle is WAY better), low health considering he has to be at mid range, which is where a gunner would simply shred him in .5 seconds.

If assault was such a cakewalk, why is assault my most killed class. Could it be, because, I don't know, it involves more than point and click, or r+right click in the case of assassin?
Assault has to make the most decisions per minute to be effective, giving it the highest skill floor (hardest to be at all competent with) and a relatively lowered skill ceiling due to this patch (the maximum skill of an assault has been greatly lowered)

Ya because the Tank would do just fine without Charge and Product Bomb, and the Assassin never has a use for Cloak or Smoke Bomb. And lets not forget the Gunner's completely useful level 1 Slam and Grapple. You really need to grow up, the Assault would be useless without his skills and so would every other class and his skills are still very useful even with the nerf.

Neither can any class besides Gunner but he would still be horribly disadvantaged.

Why is it the Assaults job all the sudden to kill bots? Why must the Assault need to be able to do EVERYTHING which was the problem before, he could do just about everything. He could have used a nerf and he got one. He certainly isn't useless now. You just have to work harder for his kills.

Bringing personal skill into this debate loses all credibility in your argument. Assault being your most killed class has absolutely nothing to do with anything and does not make your argument any more valid. And the Assault having the highest skill floor is debatable. He isn't easy but there are classes that definitely have more to think about. You just don't want to believe that maybe the Assault didn't get as nerfed as you think.

The difference is that a tank can perform all his jobs without his skills. product grenade makes it easier to kill bots from far away, but railgun does a great job of it anyway (and more juice). He has the DPS output and health to win no skill fights, not to mention he would still have jump jet, as it isn't a skill.

Yes, assassin cloak is USEFUL, but it isn't necessary. Assassin can still lunge back grapple without it, in fact, many skilled assassins do that so you won't hear them.

Slam and grapple are USEFUL, but a gunner has such massive damage output that neither is necessary. Assault is a moderate weight, mid range, low dps character. He has literally the lowest dps in the game with purely weapons.VS his assault rifle, A headshot does more dps, minigun does more dps, jet gun does more dps, shotgun does more dps, sword does more dps, shuriken does more dps. Assault is an extremely weak class without skills, whereas everything else (minus support) can function fine without them. No, it wouldn't be as good as with skills, but assault is dependent on them, whereas the other classes are not.

Honestly, how is that relevant at all? No class would be useful why does it matter that the Assault is the most useless? He has his skills and they are still just as useful as they were before. It is just going to be a bit harder for you to get the same K/D ratios which is not necessarily something that didn't need to happen. Like I've said before, Assaults have absolutely NO idea how hard it was to deal with good Assaults as some of the other classes. Now it became a bit more reasonable.

If you're not just being a derp and actually think you can do well against a player who is worth trying to kill by just doing that as a sin I'm going to have to ask you to step outside. *backhand*

For reference, Assault is my second most killed class, mostly because they're so predictable... and i really just hate Assaults.


All of the classes rely on thier skills, the reason the assault has to lean on them a bit is that his skills are almost entirely based on increased mobility... and it happens to be his major advantage.

He was supposed tbe class that was profficient at everything but not the best at anything. Personally I felt that his bot killing being relatively weak was fine because it was made up by being above average pro killer. However now he is only an average pro killer and still below average bot killer/turret killer. Also with the major, and much needed, nerf to his moneyball damage he is now slower than the tank or gunner for killing the moneyball (he was always slower than the gunner, but faster than the tank.)

He literally has no areas he is proficient at. He isn't GOOD at ANYTHING he is average at everything. Almost every class is bad at one thing, and good at a couple things. Assault isn't good at anything now except harassment.

He needed a nerf, he was TOO good at mobility and pro killing. Now he is not good enough to make up for his poor turret killing and bot killing. Uber just needs to pull the change back about halfway.

I took your advice, and "used my eyes instead of logic and math"

Results: I was right. 1bomb dropped the Jackbot from full to 3/4ths health (in the yellow) And it took 2clips of grenade launcher constant firing, and a 2nd bomb to finally take it down.

It's relevant because the other classes could all reasonably do well without any skills, but the assault and support couldn't. This is because they are weak classes that rely heavily on the skills they have, and when you nerf those skills it's not just nerfing the skills, it makes a major rippling effect that can cripple the entire class.

Imagine how much a support would get done if they had hack on a cooldown 2x as long and this was a tower defense game.

Actually, I remembered that there is indeed a way for a Headcrab to knock out 3/4 of a Jackbots health: Moneyball shields are down
Since bots of a compromised shield spawn with about half health, so does the Jackbot

And I am not doubting that its possible that the Assault was nerfed too much but some of the arguments here claim that the Assault is useless now which just isn't so. He is still the same lovable Assault we have come to love but with less abusable tools. And you are blowing the Support hack thing WAY out of proportion. That nerf would be twice as bad as the bomb nerf was as there was no real issues with the Hack skill to begin with. It is not argued too much that the Assaults bomb wasn't too effective, but it was generally accepted and was hardly ever considered game breaking. All Uber did was try to put the Assault on the level of the other classes, maybe they did it too much or maybe it truly is being blown way out of proportion.

Okay, a better example would be that the support hack only recharges while they currently have no hacks activated.

Tank product nade - a fairly equivalent skill - recharges while in midair, and while exploding, assault bomb does not.

Sniper traps - a skill which sticks to surfaces, and can be in play at multiple areas at once (read as: area denial) - recharges while in midair, and while in play just sitting around deployed.

Assassin lunge has the fastest cooldown, as it is the lightweight ultra mobile class. Tank charge has the second fastest cooldown, because it is the heaviest class, and second most mobile(?). Why would assault have a slower charge cooldown, and inferior charge overall, if it is supposed to be the more mobile class?

I think a bomb nerf was needed for moneyball damage, but the bomb was fine in every other aspect.

Once again, you are over exaggerating like crazy. The Support not having hack recharge while a hack is out is WAY more extreme than a bomb. Hacks are long term, bombs are a one time use weapon. Honestly, your reasonings are slowly becoming more and more irrelevent as you attempt to prove yourself. I am not doubting your abilities in this game simply because I don't like judging people but this nerf is severely clouding your better judgment.

The Tank's Product bomb is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the Assaults bomb in property or usefulness. It does not ring out and does not burn, it is a one shot deal with little radius. It is long range whereas the Assault bomb is not. It is built for bot waves, the Assault bomb is not. It stuns turrets, the Assault bomb does not. The initial hit doesn't do nearly as much damage as the Assaults Bomb. It isn't nearly as abusable as the Assault bomb was (and still is). Need I go on?

The Assassin lunge makes it an extremely mobile class but it cannot get to places nearly as efficiently as the Assault can and the Tank is most definitely NOT nearly as mobile as the Assault. You claim the Assault relies on skills the most yet you bring up the Tank's dependence on the Charge skill to even be a little mobile and not slow as dirt. The Assault can get around the map more efficiently than any class simply because of fly. He can attack, run away, and never be rung out simply because of this skill and you still question his mobility. And if bomb jumping is still a plausable strategy then that makes it even better for him. You questioned my intelligence because I claimed the Assault was the most mobile class, he is, he may not be the fastest but claiming a Sin can out maneuver an Assault is total BS.

The Sniper thing was the same as my first argument because they share absolutely NO properties with eachother.

I know you are a good player simply because I've played with you in pubs but you are not showing your better judgement in this argument. Please just open your eyes to the possibility that he may not have been nerfed as hard as everyone is saying and value the good aspects that still remained. He didn't need this nerf because nobody was really complaining about him but few would argue that he wasn't more useful than most other pros.

Goose I agree with some of your points. Especially the hack to bomb comparison which is a bit over the top, especially considering they are SO different its not even comparable.

A more reasonable comparison would be, the sniper's flak not starting its recharge until its explosion is finished (5seconds.)

That being said, I also disagree with some of your points. And you have some of your facts flat out wrong. Product grenade does 256damage, and splits into 4 more bombs at level 3. The level bomb is doing 300damage. Its fairly comparable from a damage point of view. However they are used for different situations, and while the product grenade is not as useful against pros (it still is very useful but not nearly as good as assault bomb) the fact it can clear an ENTIRE wave of bots, and stun turrets/jack bots ends up more than making up for the fact it is less useful than against pros. Still it is not a particularly strong comparison as you and I both agree it is meant for different things.

Playing the assault and playing the tank since the patch, I can honestly say that the tank is almost on par with the assault. His jump jets last about half as long as the assault's level 1 jets, and his charge is significantly better and available far more often. It is a better escape tool, and a better attack tool, and on a lower cooldown. His speed dps and bot killing are all higher than the assaults if he builds Speed/Rof/Cooldown endorsement (scathis' current setup. for tank.) And he has higher survivability. What the assault has is the ability to more consistently save himself from ring outs, and a smaller hit box.

Ultimately the assault is still a playable class, but picking him is like choosing to play sniper but refusing to use quick scoping. It can be effective, but its not going to be as effective as if you did.

Assassin IS the most mobile class. There is almost nowhere that the assault can get to that the assassin cannot. The assault has the ability to survive ring outs, but the assassin's lunge ESPECIALLY lunging off of ledges gives her a MASSIVE boost in mobility.

Never bothered with exact numbers, so you can blame me for never taking the time to throw a bomb and count how long it takes after I detonate it for it to recharge. Just guessed using my gut feeling, which turns out to be inaccurate.

Just to clear a misunderstanding up:

You are obviously getting butthurt whenever I make a post apologize for that... But:

Yes I do play Assault, and you can't prove otherwise. Not even by making me sound like an idiot for not studying the games mechanics to death only to sound like a smartass when I won't need it for anything constructive by browsing the INI files hidden deep in the Steam folder.

I play assault, you probably wont take my word for it, but I'd welcome you to play with me sometime just to prove you wrong on that statement, and preferably I'd like you to stop making those assumptions about players you know nothing about. You simply fail to adapt to change, which is why you want the assault buffed again, with the bomb... You always bring up the bomb... Apparently you were using a bomb-heavy playstyle, try using your assault rifle once in a while.

See what I did there? Assumed you were using a bomb-heavy playstyle. Just like you assumed I didn't play assault at all.

I can understand the Assassin being able to cover more area faster but on maps like GrenadeIII and Spunky, the Assault may have the Assassin beat. He can cover more area simply because he never needs to touch the ground. on GIII he can fly to both sniper perches relatively easily whereas the Assassin can only do it if she has a smoke bomb charged up. Not only that but she also fears surprise ejectors as well which the Assault never has a problem with. She has him beat on Steel Peel and Ammo Mule but I feel like he has much more mobility around the other maps than the Assassin does.

I disagree goose. I think the only map that the assault truly is more mobile than the assassin is LazeRazor and that is because it has a lot of walls that slow down assassins and a lot of ground paths that crisscross and thus it is faster to simply take to the sky. Other than that the assassin is just as mobile for almost every situation, and more mobile in most situations. There are a few instances where the assault has a slightly easier time than the assassin in taking a back route, but the consistency and speed of the assassin is so exponentially higher than the assaults that it more than makes up for those few edge cases.

Before the bomb/charge nerf I'd say that assault was slower than the assassin but only marginally as his speed was only a couple steps below assassin but had jump jets to put his mobility pretty much on par with her. However the major loss in speed + consistency means he is now less mobile by a noticable amount. And while this was the intent of the patch I feel that they over did it.

Everyone who is 100% for the nerf seems to believe that everyone who is against it wants the assault returned to exactly how he was before. This is simply untrue, a number of assault mains (such as myself) agreed he needed a nerf for a while, but we just want a compromise between the over powered he was and the sub standard he is.

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@Shurry I get butthurt when people try and form opinions without attempting to research as much as they can about something. Have I been wrong before? Yes plenty of times. But I actively make the effort to try and make informed decisions based on testing, and research rather than simply going with "gut feeling" which is ok for personal use but when attempting to dissuade people from their opinion and create a debate setting "my gut tells me" means you shouldn't be trying to tell people that their opinion or belief is missinformed.

While I respect you in that skills are different, I respectfully disagree with you here. So far, all of your arguments have been claiming that the assault isn't as skill dependent because he has great mobility from fly, which is a skill. You can't say the assault is more mobile on grenade 3 because of fly when the assassin needs a smoke bomb, because fly doesn't have 100% uptime, it has a cooldown for use too, putting the assault in the same boat as the sin for this - skill dependence. The difference is that the assassin can clear massive distances in seconds with lunge (not a skill) while the assault is relatively slow except when his charge is off cooldown or during a bomb jump, both of which are no longer safe or reliable ways to cover distances, as you will need one or the other to get out, and if you intend to use one for combat, you are boned.

The AR is one of the lowest DPS pro weapons, with the shortest range drop off for any projectile weapon. The grenade launcher damage is pitiful. That leaves skills. Without skills, the assault is a bad class. Taking away or nerfing assault skills moves assault towards being bad.

I have been playing tank some lately, and can honestly tell you that product nade is great for everything. It not only blinds pros, but makes them run around like a chicken with it's head cut off because if they stand still the grenade split will probably kill them. The rail gun has perfect accuracy and full damage at any range, and can effectively kill bots and pros, and takes down turrets about as fast as grenades do. The product nade can destroy an entire bot wave in 1 click from across the map on a roughly 8 second cooldown. That is faster than bots spawn, so you can basically push bots without ever even shooting a gun, and reliably have it on cooldown when you need it vs a pro as well. It allows you to rape turrets, because the blind allows you to get close enough to use the crazy high close range DPS jet gun, which melts turrets like butter.

The tank jump jets function great for mobility when used in combination with a charge off an edge, allowing you to travel great distances quickly, on a shorter cooldown. it also has a much better level 3 effect, knockdown. not only can it hit multiple enemies, but it stuns them allowing you to get away or kill them, whereas the assault 3 charge grapples them, which not only stuns YOU (in the grapple animation) but it has a longer cooldown and doesn't make them an easy kill - quite the opposite, actually, it throws them far away from you, making it worthless as an opener, whereas the tank charge can be used as an opener and escape, or a finisher.

Not to mention the tank has nearly DOUBLE the assault health. Yes, his hit box is bigger, but the health definitely makes up for it.

You all should try "Tank Jumping." Charge off of an edge and then keep tapping jump. Watch how far that Tank will go.

im actually having quite the problem with the takes lately, i play with a friend who mains a tank, while i still play better then him i do have a lot of problems killing the tank in general now.

His product grenade does do alot of damage if it hits, true it doesnt ignite me but for that he has all the advantages of raping bots and turrets with it. (and ofc blinding and his jetgun will ignite on the slightest touch)

i cant get close to him because the jetgun will rape me, so the AR isnt that viable if i have to stay on range, at the same time he has a perfect acc weapon in case i do try to run for it (low health or not)

Even with bronze speed hes faster then me and sins the armor nerf will only need the tip of his jetgun to wipe you out.

With charge, he has the better charge AND the faster charge.
Considering hes a fatass compared to the assault its hard to imagine him having the stamina to charge faster then the more athletic assault, even with the suits.

The bomb not charging is understanable while in play is understadable but with a 10sec cooldown its not really a viable option to use anymore outside of a direct fight.

Charge being 10seconds as well on lvl3 with the grapple on the end also makes it a bit tricky to use, if you fly to not grapple you will love a large portion of the damage, but if you do grapple you still risk being killed during it as it freezes you in place.
Then there is still the problem with alot of times not killing the enemy if you charge him, trowwing him to the other side of the map if its not a ringout, losing on a kill/cashbonus.

Overall i would say the tank has the better charge of the 2, by FAR!
stuns everything while he keeps moving, stronger then the assaults to you cant even counter it. Insta ringout that wont even let the assault survive that.
And on top it charges faster. (7 seconds or something? the assault needs silver skill for that, same with the bomb, skilltank can spam those 2 skills like crazy while being an hardass to kill because of his hp)

Overall i would say the assault needed a nerf but not THIS hard, basicly he got his HPboost from armor nerfed, his 2 best offensive skills and has shitty weapons (if you dont boost them with endorcements but they you have either of 2 things, or shitty skill recharge or shitty health) and i would even dare bring this up: did they also nerf his d
moneyball damage? feels somewhat weaker, although im kinda fine with this, no class should be able to completely solo the moneyball.

Im not saying this because i only play assault or because i need MAH OP IMBA SKILLS to kill people, i still average around 2-3 k/d vs a good/decent team and next to assault i also play tank and gunner but esp the those 2 last classes feel alot stronger now with the assault nerfed (gunner not so much, he feels fine, tank pretty much gives me insane amounts of kills atm, with 4-5 k/d on average, but thats why im comparing it this way now)

Now on an offtopic note i could say the following about all classes as to me they feel now:

Assault: slightly underpowered, read above why

Gunner: more or less fine

Tank: strongest class atm imo, high hp, fast skills ans strong weapons vs bots, pros and turrets.

Assassin: also more or less fine, lunge feels a bit fast but overall fine, esp now with the smokebomb patch, just should be locked away from new players until they agree not to facegrapple tanks D:
The rage on this class about the armor nerf is ungrounded imo, sins shouldnt be facegrabbing and surviving anyway

Sniper: more or less fine imo, compared to the assaults bombs his flak does recharge while ingame and most of the maps alow him to rape in the right hands, would say if played on maps like LazorRazor he is fine 2, other maps like grenade3 hes OP as f*ck.

Support: Maybe a bit underpowered. When i play him i can get quite a good ratio with him, only depends a lot on his turret. his turret will rape anything except the tank, which will kill it in notime. his shotgun is fine on close range but he lacks in range if his turret is dead or out of reach, his airstrike will rape if used correctly in a struggle but fairly useless in a fight with cover near.

Excuse my typos and whatnot, im on a AZERTY keyboard while i normally use QWERTY, which is a hell to use for me. (and i know i dont cap the I and dont use ' in I'm, im writing this on a keyboard i dont know in between 2 classes)

I agree with almost everything you said water EXCEPT this:

The railgun is NOT EVEN CLOSE to as good at taking out turrets as the grenade launcher. It is however SIGNIFICANTLY better at killing bots.

Grenade launcher: 150damage per shot, 1 shot per second, 10shots per clip.
Railgun: 149dmg per shot, 1 shot per second, 10shots per clip.

Almost identical. However what seperates them is the multipliers.

Grenade launcher does 2x damage vs turrets. So every shot is 300damage. and it does 3x damage against bots.

The railgun does not have a multiplier at all again turrets. So it always does 149 to turrets. However it does 5x dmg against bots.

So for comparison:

Grenade launcher:
Vs Pros: 150dmg
Vs Turrets: 300damage
Vs Bots: 450 Damage
Vs Moneyball: 75damage

Railgun:
Vs Pros: 149 damage (god this pisses me off cause it means you have to hit a sniper 3x at minimum lol.)
Vs Turrets: 149dmg
Vs Bots: 745dmg
vs Moneyball: 40dmg

The railgun is significantly more useful against pros, and bots, but the grenade launcher is better against turrets and the moneyball. However the Tank's jetgun is FAR better against turrets, pros, bots, moneyball than the assault's rifle.