Assassins are Anti-Fun. Regardless of their status as OP/UP

As for making up facts, perhaps you should refrain from it as well. From what I understand the support and assault do more damage to the moneyball when juiced than any other class. The assault's grenades and bomb do far more than the assassin's shurikens or katana, and so does the support's rate of fire shotgun from a close range juice. I have single handedly tipped the game in my favour as support, having taken out 75% of the moneyball in a single juice, and popping my three airstrikes right after. I've never seen an assassin do that.

Frankly the way you seem to completely ignore points, insult people, make unreasonable claims, and then call them hypocrites when they get angry leads me to believe you are not an idiot. You are a troll.

I have no problems with the Assassin. She's very easy to kill once spotted, and once you get used to the cloak sound it's very difficult to be snuck up upon. Most good Assassins -- from what I've seen -- would rather burn their lunge to do some initial burst damage and quickly close the distance on their perspective target rather than cloak walk due to the noise it generates. This usually gives them the element of surprise they need for a quick grapple kill from behind, but leaves them without a valuable escape mechanism after the grapple is finished.

@Tinygod:

I dont think you are correct on support shotgun, though factoring in airstrikes (all 3) he probably pulls a head, but airstrikes are uneffected by juice..

Assault Grenade/bomb while juiced is NOT more dmg than the sin shrukien spaming, unless he is able to pop juice RIGHT on top of the money ball, and get off a 2nd bomb whlie juiced, which he most often wont be able to do.. meanwhile the sin can hit juice from cloak, and any where in range of ball..and deal consistantly the 2nd highest dmg to money ball..

and if you are going to tell me you did 75% of a moneyballs health in a single juice run as support.. than I could argue that there was NO ONE stopping you.. and no turrets hitting you.. there was no opposition..

any one with a grapple would have ended that.. especialy and assault or a tank who would have punted you out of range..

meanwhile an assassin is dashing around spaming shrukiens, from range and very hard to catch in a grapple.. unlike mario over there whos standing right ontop of the money ball spaming shotgun blasts..

my points have ALL been valid.. and true. I love how we dont talk about back grapples dmg, which I was right on, and he was not.. you attack the support being number one money ball killer..

lets address

Bots: number 1/2 next to tank
Turrets: Number 1 (because of lunge, which can be used to get from one turret to the next instantly, and to avoid shaved ice turret slowdown between turrets)
Moneyball: Number 2/3 (if you wanna argue support can deal a ton of dmg if left alone)
Pros: can instantly kill 5/6 class's (without over charge) from a lunge or from cloak.
Defense: can survive failed attempts at assassination by using one of 4 defensive abilities: Lunge, smokebomb, cloak, dash. And has reduced dmg taken while grappling, which is the sins primary form of attack on pros..
Juicegain: Arguably the fastest at gaining juice, due being on point for juice box pickups from bots, by nature of her primary attack method (katana) and because of huge speed increases, making it easy to farm multiple lanes.. also can camp dispencers (bot dispencers) in cloak 3, with little to no fear of retribution.. at most you can "chase her off"


really what are her downsides? She has low health (but almost always packs gold armor).. ok so if she stands there infront of a pro swiging a sword she dies.. got it.. god forbid she retreates for 5 seconds and comes back.. or just leaves and kills more bots.

only assault is nearly as forgiving with mistakes, and his charge has a cooldown that is not even close to lunge... Sins lunge is far too good for escaping, it makes the SIn easy mode once you learn them.. sure good pros can make you ineffective at "their location" by fighting you off, but they cant kill you, not if you don't let them.. and you can always kill bots with shrukiens (very quickly) if a tank or assault are watching bots.

the problem is, if you lunge, grapple, jump, lunge it will be off cooldown, and the jump avoids any grapples.. so at most you take a few hits from a weapon.. lunges cooldown is rediculous.. I mean come on.. really? add like 2 seconds to it.. and I would be fine.. seriously..

add 2 seconds cooldown to lunge, and shed be fine..

right now she has NO downside.

Guys, please stay friendly. tinygod, watch it, no trolling. Less aggression, more reasoning, thx.

This is the only part I care to address.

The Support shotgun is the most powerful weapon on the Moneyball. Airstrike damage is pretty negligible.

Assault is THE best Moneyball killer. Bomb does insane amounts of damage, as does the juiced grenade launcher. Shuriken spamming while juiced does not even compare.

As a Support, I've still fired at the Moneyball for 10 seconds straight while 4 people on the enemy team tried to stop me.

Please, PLEASE, go play the game more before you come back with more false facts.

@Tinygod: There is no problem. Assassins sound like freight trains "sneaking up" on you and their smoke bomb completely removes them from the situation. Whether or not they escaped with their life is irrelevant when you're free to push the lane unharassed until the next wave spawn because the Assassin's already gone and ****ed off.

There seems to be a large (nay, HUGE) misconception surrounding how to effectively "DEAL WITH" a class, and killing it being a 'necessity'. If you can simply make someone go away (and thus not cover the bot lane) then you've already effectively "countered" them. The fact that 'good' Assassins live beyond 90% of their botched Assassinations means nothing when they spent all that time sneaking up on you, didn't get the reward (the kill; did no damage), and now are spending all that time running away and re-orienting themselves for another approach. This entire time they haven't been pushing the lane or harassing enemy Pros pushing lanes as they've been harmlessly slapped away at every attempt.

The same deal goes with Snipers. I've had many a pub where there has been a Sniper on a typical Sniper perch locking down any push attempts on the lane. In order to free up my lane to be pushed, I don't have to kill him, I just have to make him go away.

It's just like forcing enemies to "go back to the fountain (regen)" in DotA. A kill isn't necessary to gain an advantage if you can just force the enemy off the map temporarily. The fact that the Assassin has multiple ways to be forced off the map is irrelevant as long as she's departing.

Also, Assault does the most damage to the moneyball with his level 3 sticky and grenade launcher, hands down. He's also the most slippery class to catch out of all of them with jetpack, charge, and a serious chunk of health at his disposal.

@Col_Jessep: Nothing is going to come of this topic. There's no real "fruitful" discussion. The title itself indicates that. We're not even arguing about balance at this point, just different concepts of "fun" and "fair". What's the point? I'll see you on page 31.

Please, have some faith. Cya on page 49...

the problem is they lunge/facegrapple you and leave you at 10% health, than jump/lunge/smokebomb back to bot lane.. and its YOU who has to back off.. not them....

the only thing you can do to stop a sin from killin bots is to walk with them.. and than they just shrukien.. the class is NOT super good at killing pros liek some argue, i argue that its too survivable.. to be so darn good at killing bots/turrets/moneyball.

the tank is great at killing bots too, but if you find him doing so you can kill him if you are good enough to kill the player.. not the class.. the sin, even in the hands of a bad player, can still kill bots, and use juice (even bad players can kill 2 turrets as sin while juiced), and they can simply run from a fight at will with no way to stop them.. they just go away kill more bots and come back in 10 seconds.. they get free kills on inexperienced players, and free kills on anyone whos wounded (face grapples)..

all in all they are just too good at what they do, to have that kind of escape utility and survivability.

Agreed on all points here, though damn is it tempting to try to finish off that smug little twig of a man before he can escape.

I've never had to "back off" because of a crummy face stab.

Any class can clear bot waves in seconds. The fact that Assassins clear them a second or two faster is irrelevant due to the speed at which bot waves respawn; there is no difference in "push efficiency" due to kill speed, they only kill bots the fastest because they are the class that is punished the greatest for being exposed.

No one gives a **** about "bad" or "inexperienced" players in balance discussions.

Assassins are fine.

I love how you made good points, than threw them away with that last comment. You sound ignorant to me now.. good job.

assassins clear bots, fast and are exposed al lof 2 seconds during it.. but more imporatntaly they can clear waves of bots on both sides of the map, due to quick mobility, to get from one side to the other.. And if you have never been forced to back out of a situation due to loosing 90% of your health, than you are not playing good teams. or are just over exagerating..

either way, you clearly carry a bunch of agression into the discussion, because you are biased..

so am I

Assassins are OP and need nerfed.. and i'm gonna keep saying it until it happens.


and guess what... its gonna happen... Good luck dealing with that.

You sound so incredibly childish here that it is impossible to take anything you say seriously. And then there's the whole problem where nothing you say is relevant. Had you made even 1 good point about anything we might have listened. You can continue to say they are OP, it makes no difference.

>Join game
>Assault and Tank both get $10,000+ at round end
>Assault has 45+ kills and 0 deaths
>Good Assassin on other team is 8-27
>Laugh at thread

Two seconds is all it takes.



Why do mods let you post? Your post history is atrocious. It's literally a gallery of posts with little to no actual substance arguing for the nerfs of Assassin and Sniper. You've made not one post that actually demonstrates that you understand the actual concepts governing how this game works yet flaunt your opinion as though it were unquestionable. Go away.

my post history? Ohhh... you mean the times I post sniper and assassin are OP.. yeah so you hate that.. got it.. i'm shocked.. you hate people threatening your easy mode class's.. lol... Ive had MANY valid arguments, none of which you address.. you simply use the old tried and true.

"if you think they too good, its cause you bad.. L2P" arguement.. which is truly sad.. And than you ignore what I say and act as if I had no points..

I'm not oging to list them again.. ive done that far too many times, without you addressing them....

Truth is that you guys all sound so angry... its crazy.. You need to step away from the computer and breathe...

Clearly you dont want to talk about facts right now, you just wanna rage and its understandable.. People get that way, when something they love is threatend.

Tell you what, i'm gonna not respond to your posts for a whole day ok?

Well continue this argument than but for now.. I'm putting you two on a 24 hour timeout .. so that you don't blow a gasket.

See you in 24 hours.

Starting......... now..

These bits are pretty much the definition of hypocrisy right here.

I like how sins can miss their lunge/face combo then instantly do 180 and backstab. Please don't nerf this. It's too fun!

I like how 93% of my lunge grapples fail due to "lag" ... that's super fun too don't change it!