Assassins are Anti-Fun. Regardless of their status as OP/UP

thanks for launching into an argument that has exactly nothing to do with what im talking about. nice try though.

You can continue to deny the fact that I have completely obliterated your argument, it makes no difference to me. Have a good night.

you made no reference to a single concern about assassins, and just launched into a presumptuous bunch of bollocks completely unrelated to my concerns. when you're after a serious discussion about actual game balance, be sure to let me know

I hereby submit my official recommendation to Uber Entertainment:

Remove all classes from the game.

So... Is this going to be another 45'pager?

Hopefully not, the whole thing has devolved far off topic and has turned into a 'nerf assassins' 'no buff assassins' argument.

Leave just the bots, and 'ball turrets. No, nothing can be player controlled because that would be anti-fun. >_>

I made a guide on how the tank is the best class to cut this off. Easy, stay with bots to make sure they make it to the objective. That's the goal of the game, so doing it is doing you're job.

Besides, if you don't like instant death shenanigans, play as tank. Especially with gold armor and passive upgrades, nothing that can OHKO most other classe will kill you. Assassins that land a lunge-backgrapple with a katana will eat a charge-deathblossom or charge-grapple afterwards. Snipers that headshot consistently will have to follow up with at least a bodyshot afterwards to kill you. When juiced, you can survive an airstrike with a silver armor endorsement, and a headcrab with a gold one. Only true OHKOs in the game are a ringout, which is often unreliable, and a pancake, which is LOLYOUGOTKILLEDBYAGUNNER (generally, gunners don't need a nerf, they are low on the complaint level)

Oh, by the way, grapple assassins if they rely too much on smokebomb. If they grapple you, grappling back will take them out of smokebomb animation and stop their jump. With smokebomb on cooldown, they can't reliably flee.

No, no, no...

you think smokebomb is the most reliable way to escape? lol lol lol

Lunge > smokebomb is better.. since you can lunge out of grapple range instantly, before they can POSSIBLY do anything..

even after a failed smokebomb.. you still can lunge away into cloak dash..

Assassins seldom die if they dont over extend or go for the kill when they should run.. this is a huge complain I have.. they have far too much survivability, regardless of the fact that most bad assassins don't use it.

find a good gold armor sin and than beat your head against the wall trying to kill him..

smokebomb, lunge, cloak, dash..

The most survivability? I would think the Assault has more. He has more health, a higher jump, fly, and charge. And he doesn't need to get up in your face to kill you.

And why shouldn't she have that much survivability? She has no health and her only reliable way of killing a Pro requires her to be right next to you. Other classes don't need that because they can kill you from a distance.

I never said she has the most, you read what you wanted to read.. I said she has far too much.

and why shouldnt she? Beause she is capable of instantly killing every pro on the field minus a tank. INSTANTLY KILLING.. and doing so from cloak..

she is also the BEST bot and turret killer and 2nd best money ball killer.. and 100 other things she does better.. like gaining juice and USING IT thanks to not having to pop it early as she can walk right up in cloak..


and PS: She doesnt need her endorsements.. so gold armor is pretty much always gonna be on.. meaning her health isnt THAT much of a liability.. shes packing an extra 300 or so.. I mean she needs rate of fire to do her job better, nothing else helps.. so armor is a given and honestly when I use sin, I dont even care what my bronze is.. I don't need it.

so yeah, thats why she doesnt need that much survivabilty... take away her ability to instantly kill 5/6th of the class's and I'll stop complaining about her survivabilty..

If backstabs were kills for her, and face stabs got her killed she would be balanced, but as it is right now, face stabs just force her to retreat, unless of course there is another friendly in the area, than they are just slightly slower backstabs since they leave pros with NO health..

people act like facegrapples dont do anything, they nearly kill all class's, if you have any health missing you ususually die to them.. even in gold armor as an assault.. I am left with mayb 1/10th of my health after a face grapple..

I do admit that grapples take away control from the player and feel frustrating. That's not even arguable. But I believe these one shot kills are necessary. It can smash pub stompers.

Instantly killing? A dagger backstab will not work on an Assault, Gunner, or a Support (Passive 3) with Gold armor, maybe less. And of course it won't kill a Tank. So it's guaranteed to kill 2/6 of the classes, providing there is no juice or overheal involved.

She is arguably the best bot killer. Some would say the Tank is. There is a valid argument for both. I will not argue that she is not the best turret killer. However, she is most definitely NOT the 2nd best Moneyball killer. The Assault and Support are by far the best. The Tank and Gunner also do massive amounts of damage that an Assassin simply cannot do. As for a Sniper, I have not tested his damage vs. the Assassin's yet. However, he can be further away than an Assassin and still shoot it.

No class "needs" endorsements. Pretty much everyone uses RoF and Armor on every class. That argument is invalid.

Thanks to the juice nerf it takes an infuriating amount of bots for her to gain juice. Not to mention her damage to turrets was reduced. What else do you want?

A face grapple won't kill any class running armor, barring perhaps bronze armor on an Assassin or Sniper. It is extremely easy to get away from an Assassin after a face grapple. You probably lack the experience necessary to be able to do it. Also, a level 3 Gunner grapple is a 1 hit kill on even a gold armored Assassin. Yeah, that's fair.

If you're getting gunner grappled as an assassin, you're absolutely terrible.

Or, you backstabbed them but they lived. Then you jumped, and somehow in midair you were dragged back down into his grapple thanks to lag.

And honestly, quit it with all these "If _____, then you're terrible." It's a rather silly argument.

Also, thank you for completely ignoring the point of my post and going off on a tangent that has nothing to do with what anyone was talking about.

A KATANA grapple kills assaults with gold armor from behind... check your facts again please, and than come back and talk about experience..

PS: she out dmges assault on money ball while juiced, in fact she out damages all but sniper on money ball while juiced.. sniper juiced flak 3 does the most dmg in a single juice.. Shruikiens do 2nd best.. non juiced assault does the best, do the huge dmg from a stuck bomb.. and mobility

tank does even against bots, but a tank is exposed doing so, where as a sin can hit and run, and jump lanes quickly and easily..

Facegrapples are not always easy to survive, as most class's.. assaults and tanks of course will survive, I main assault, sins rarely kill me.

I'm not saying she is OP because she has huge dmg.. i'm saying she has no punishment for bad playstyle.

you can over extend your assassin and get away when caught.. how many other class's can do that?

she needs to have the dmg reduction while smokebombed, and while grappling reduced..

Didnt you just accuse me of having a lack of experience? but he cant say you die to gunner grapples because you are terrible?

You are wrong about dmg outputs from grapples, you use lag as a what? As a staple argument for why gunner grapple kills you consistantly? If you are getting grappled at all as a sin, you are screwing up.. use LUNGE instead of smokebomb to escape, smokebomb after lunge.. you win.. you cant be grappled during a lunge.

PS: your grapple can pull me out of a lvl 3 charge, or a tank out of his charge..with good timing.. but our grapples cant touch you during lunge.. so guess what that means..

face grapple, lunge backwards.. shrukiens to see what he does.. oh hes coming after me.. smokebomb awaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

there is NO downside to screwing up as an assassin, just hit

1) lunge
2) smokebomb
3) cloak
4) sprint

do things in that order, and guess what..... yeah you win.. sure maybe you didnt kill him.. but he doesnt kill you either..

You have posted so many ignorant things that I can't even be bothered to respond to them. So I will leave you with a generic "Get better." That is all.

I love how you argue that people should say fact, and make valid arguements, and than when I back you into a wall, you show your true colors.

As a whiny little kid, who plays assassin and doesnt wanna loose his shiny toy.

thanks for that..

PS: dont make up facts and use them on the internet, they come back to bite you in the rear during your arguments.

Thanks for proving my point about your ignorance.