[Angry rant] Gearbox is officially worse than EA in my book.

Discussion in 'Unrelated Discussion' started by tehtrekd, December 3, 2014.

  1. Gorbles

    Gorbles Post Master General

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    Why isn't it? Is that drop integral to your game experience? If you hadn't Googled the boss beforehand, would you even know that that drop was in the boss' loot pool?

    You've gone out of your way to expose game mechanics that the game doesn't explain, and now you're complaining that you don't get the specific weapon that you had to Google to know was in the game.

    I have no inside information beyond what the developers have said on the forums. See my answer above - you're not meant to know what gear the boss can drop. The game isn't designed for you to be able to predict the drops enemies give you.
  2. tehtrekd

    tehtrekd Post Master General

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    If that's the case, why have boss-specific loot at all?
    Think about it, it's completely nonsensical. If the game isn't designed for the player to be able to predict drops, why have predictable drops!?
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  3. Gorbles

    Gorbles Post Master General

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    Because it's an added bonus of killing a boss as supposed to any other enemy? People expect rarer loot from harder enemies. People do not expect unique loot that cannot be obtained through any other means. One is a visible expectation, the other, invisible.

    Please don't use the reductio ad absurdum as a fallacy.
  4. Geers

    Geers Post Master General

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    I'm not sure that's entirely true.

    If you kill "The Unholy Angel of Damned Souls" or whatever you'd expect something special like "The Spear of Corrupted Light".
  5. Gorbles

    Gorbles Post Master General

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    Why? What leads you to expect something special?

    * special meaning above and beyond the usual rare loot that has come to be expected from bosses in an RPG setting.
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  6. squishypon3

    squishypon3 Post Master General

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    I'll just go and say I played both the first and second Borderlands games without ever grinding. It was never a requirement.

    I would almost go to say that grinding was a metagame created by players by abusing game mechanics. ;)
  7. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    Castlevania Harmony of Despair, despite letting you grind if you so desire as long as you play the darn level each time, had a lot of boss specific loot.

    Now, if they didn't want you to grind or know the loot, then uhm.... why wouldn't they make the boss drop the same loot with better luck modifiers? Or just generally follow-up level loot?

    Why give it specific loot, just to say players shouldn't know it, just to force the most grindy or cheating players to be the only ones that get the exact loot they want for an exact build of character?

    They could do a better job of loot generation, like completely procedurally based, at that rate. Making specific boss weapons, means people will want that specific boss drop. Having to play the game to level 9 each time, to try to get a special weapon, and when boss kill fails you delete that save file and start over, is a pain.

    They should simply design it better, lol.
  8. Gorbles

    Gorbles Post Master General

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    * means that people will want that boss drop if people even know the boss drops that specific piece of gear.

    Honestly, glossing over posts ain't cool. Telling designers what to do while glossing over said posts is even more laughable.

    Also, seriously, in what game do you need to farm a specific item at a specific level to continue?
  9. Geers

    Geers Post Master General

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    Farmville?
    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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  10. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    In borderlands, I play a runthrough with a specialized skillset morphed around whatever I aquire without trying. My first BL2 playthrough was with a Zero melee focused, with huge critical and damage-flipping. Mainly because I found a mass of melee amping weapons that were also decent finisher handguns and EVERYONE can agree that is a common weapon to come across.

    Then, if I am ever to play it even once more again afterwards, as I do this in Oblivion and most other games, I do another attempt to get the most specialized **** I can. Like with snipers and zero, or with a variety of badass weapons and a gunzerker.

    Would be rather nice if, with a reasonable amount of controllable effort but not "a given", that you were able to get a specific item if you wanted it. That is what "grinding" is about.

    They did good by not making grinding required.

    They did bad by either designing the game where grinding a boss isn't a necesity for certain things A LA completely procedurally generated stuff that you can get off anything given luck, or by removing the ability to do it since it exists.
  11. kvalheim

    kvalheim Post Master General

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    Hey guys.
    These are all like very specific minor gameplay gripes. This isn't EA-level "Making companies do something completely different then shutting them down when they fail" or "Completely killing beloved franchises with horrible F2P mobile games".
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  12. Gorbles

    Gorbles Post Master General

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    @tHeTrOpHySyStEm - the point I'm making is this:

    You do not know what item the boss is going to drop. You have no idea what you think you're going to be farming for.

    Thus, lowering the percentage for one of these items, or one class of items, is not bad games design.

    Reminds me of http://kotaku.com/death-threats-follow-small-call-of-duty-tweak-888324886 (not exactly, before anyone gets their feathers ruffled) :D
  13. tehtrekd

    tehtrekd Post Master General

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    I never said that the loot was unobtainable through other means, but the rare loot is easier to get from these boss enemies.

    Also:

    Given the series this game is part of, hell, given the engine this game is made off of, yes. Yes you do, because the loot system in TPS is built in such a way that CAN tell what legendary item would drop from a certain boss, even if you didn't look it up, that's how Borderlands has worked since 2.

    If you played 2 before TPS, and fought a boss/miniboss and it dropped say a Fatale, you would know that it was programmed to have a heightened chance to drop that specific gun, because that's how BL2 worked, and the two games are built on practically the same engine.

    Again, if the intention was to keep the loot unpredictable why keep the same boss-specific drop system? Why not instead make it so that the boss has a higher chance to drop a random legendary? That way you actually have no idea what you're going to get from a boss kill and the one-time encounter thing is actually a good decision.
  14. Gorbles

    Gorbles Post Master General

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    You couldn't tell what bosses dropped what loot in Borderlands 2, either.

    There is no "boss-specific" drop system. Enemies with an increased difficulty have a higher-quality loot pool. Certain enemy types are more likely to have higher-quality loot pools than other enemies. Some enemies do have a specific piece of gear in their loot pool, but this is down to random chance and not made clear to the player.

    You do not know unless you wiki it. A boss can drop item X, a Badass can drop item X, and a trash pile can turn out item X. You don't know the percentages involved. You have no way of knowing. Don't assume that just because a boss drops a specific item, that that boss has a heightened chance compared to anything else in the game.

    You have persistently managed to misrepresent the facts, ignore questions presented . . . I mean this thread is titled an "angry rant" so I wasn't expecting much, but you're not even giving up. Even the premise your OP is completely incorrect, so I figure I might as well clear it up so everyone knows how much of a drama you're making out of nothing.

    The nerf to the loot for a specific boss was because that boss was glitched and was giving far better rewards than the developer intended. For a boss that is actually incredibly easy, even to solo. Many players on the forums have flat-out admitted this (even the ones unhappy with the change).

    Gearbox didn't intentionally screw anything. You got the wrong end of the stick, didn't bother to look up developer reasons for their own games design, and went on a rant about it. You are wrong.

    And, for the record, not that this should matter, but I've played BL1 (and all DLCs), BL2 (and all DLCs) and TPS (I don't have Jack yet). I post on their forums. I'm well aware of how the game works. There are some excellent threads on RNG loot generation and how players frequently get it horribly wrong when complaining about it.
  15. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    Well that clears it up @Gorbles , all I asked.

    So bosses do not have unique loot. Problem solved. So there are other "intended balanced" ways to farm loot.

    Know what I bar none loved about BL2? The slot machines. Not the best you say, but just a generally relaxing way to pass time as you eat food or something, and periodically get something occasionally.
  16. teapot

    teapot Post Master General

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    They probably could have done a better job with more resources/time but they were dealt a bad hand for lack of a better term. I wonder where a lot of the issues stem from the Halo PC port into the MCC edition, because the bugs are atrocious. There were a couple of really, really good variations of Halo PC and I think Custom Edition was part of that, but a PC guy made something called a "no-lead" mod which kept the projectile based mechanics of the weapon, but did so in a way that no matter where each person lived, you lead your shot a consistent amount despite 200+ ping.

    I guess a lot of the complications come from creating a online PC port of a shooter made for consoles, then taking that PC port and trying to get it to work again on consoles. I'm not sure which bugs the community had asked to keep, but I can't imagine them being positives in any way. Empty weapons stay on map for entirely too long, and you can pick them up. Weapons have been rotated from their original positions for no-reason, and make a lot of grenade tricks void on certain maps.

    Camo is utterly useless compared to OG console. Seriously, like the rockets are so incredibly strong they should be the best thing in the game right? Camo was considered more valuable on Xbox, and if you want I can show you a comparison video of the two, because the two are SO extreme. Xbox, he's pretty much invisible, but on PC you're just made of mirrors or something, and in various situations you can easily see camo across a big map, like blood gulch.

    The main issue is the constant falling through floors. I'm a pretty experienced CE guy. Sure I loved it as a kid but I've been lanning the game for years now, with my last H1 lan being last year unfortunately. Throughout the years I've never fallen through the map. Since the h1 community is a small, grass roots community I know most of them. After talking to most of them (guys who have only played halo 1 since it game out) most have never fallen through a map or seen someone. A few have, and couldn't really link it to anything.

    I've fallen through the map like 20 times on MCC within 2 weeks. Most of the time, you fall completely out and die, but then people started falling through the 2nd level only to land on the first level in multiplayer matches. Most recently, the most bizarre thing happened, instead of falling through the floor, I got pushed through the ceiling and landed in a spot I figured was impossible to get onto. If you did play Halo 1 a decent amount, I hope your familiar with Chill Out. I went up rocket ramp into sniper hallway and as soon as I turned the corner I saw an enemy, tried ot melee, and went through the ceiling onto of sniper hall. I have the clip saved I think.

    Were these bugs present on PC?
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  17. squishypon3

    squishypon3 Post Master General

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    I've never fallen through the map, PC or MCC, very odd bug. o.o
  18. teapot

    teapot Post Master General

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    yeah, it's really just the tip of the iceberg.

    http://halobugs.com/ is a pretty cool site where we're all pooling together to update the bugs and can hopefully get them fixed. If you're bored check it out because the list is huge, there's some insight as to whats causing the bugs or how to fix them, and plenty of videos that showcase them.

    falling through 3rd floor on priz, landed 2nd floor.
    http://xboxclips.com/Teapot Yo/ebd44fe3-6202-4ee6-bcff-9266fb5097ba

    instantly dying to the guardians after falling from wizard powerup to ramp
    http://xboxclips.com/Teapot Yo/5a0c7cd0-6b2f-4e6e-bc27-2b15de55984b

    falling completely out of chill-out, probably can reproduce this one
    http://xboxclips.com/Teapot Yo/d372ae4b-fe49-4f81-8f43-e06c1a7a147a

    naded camo down on damny, and it falls at like .5 fps
    http://xboxclips.com/Teapot Yo/e45ea263-4fc0-46e6-8b1c-bdf28eb27153

    Here's the cool one though. Falling upwards? All this does is make me miss shadowrun.
    http://xboxclips.com/Teapot Yo/9188606c-a768-456c-9659-256d3c8e0593

    Here is that same clip through the kids POV who melee'd me.
    http://xboxclips.com...01-62600b63665e
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