Almost 7 hours of Team Play Wasted (F*** Overtime)

They camp up from their spawn, outside the base. I would say about the 30-45 yard line depending on the map. I didn't say they sit in the spawn, only that when they spawn that have a significantly shorter distance to make up than the other team. Pile that on top of the fact that they outnumber your offensive guys and there you go.

I don't want to have to spazz the juice in the game to win. I want to play a tower defense game as promised, not some chaotic wildcard bullshit.

Actually, I wouldn't have a problem with OT if 85% plus of the public matches didn't come down to it and rendered playing the game properly in regulation meaningless.

I hate to say it, but maybe you should consider that perhaps the way the game is being played isn't in line with the game design goals and that sometimes that comes out in play.

Here is a fundamental misunderstanding of what I'm trying to say.

I'm not worried about losing to OT juice strategies. I don't need tips on how to counter OT juice strategies. I hate that it exists at all. The point is the current metagame of MNC (as much as I hate that term) is to wait until overtime and juice up at the moneyball. It doesn't matter that a coordinated team can stop it, or that it is technically counterable, it is still what I'm going to encounter in 99% of my games and it just isn't fun to do or fight against.

Exactly. It's just all that happens in public matches, which happens to be all I play.

Sometimes games go into OT. If every game ended before regulation ended then why include OT at all? The point is that OT does exist and games do need a 'balanced' method to determine a winner based upon a strict set of rules. If these rules are not consistent then there is a problem.

When Poker tournaments go head to head they don't make dueces wild. When Soccer matches go into OT they don't let players remain in an offside position. The point being that MNC has a strict set of rules that are observed for 15 minutes and OT neglects them in an effort to end the game quickly.

Now the rules can be altered slightly and giving players full Gold endorsements and spawning only Jackbot XLs is a method to help speed up the process. It forces the Pros to use the Annihilator and Ejectors to slow them down and make sure that their turrets are maintained since Jackbot XLs will make quick work of unguraded turrets. Juice is also another way for players to clear obstacles in the path of their Jackbots or to play defense against them.

The point is that the moneyball does not need to drop. If OT ends with neither team destroying the monyeball the team that did the most damage wins. This concept is perfect and forcing the moneyball to drop, which allows the Pros to bypass all of these previous rules, is where the problem lies. I still also feel that purchasing Juice should have a 60 second cooldown however. These two simple changes would make OT play like a hectic version of the pervious 15 minutes.

If you think OT as it stands is fine then you are a blind fool that ignores logic in its simplest form.

Look, if I know that OT will be gauranteed to me than I will play differently during the regulation time. Hence, I WILL NOT try my best to struggle for a hard-earned win during regulation by pushing bots when I can wait and take an easy juice-rush win in OT.

The fact that OT is ALWAYS there changes how most people approach the game. PERIOD. These changes alter the game from how it was meant to be played.

I really cannot stand any elitist who comes in and says "but my team always winz teh game b4 OT !!!!" Yea okay good for you, you have a capable team THAT IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE MAJORITY PLAYERBASE OF THIS GAME. (and if you really win all your games in regulation that means you don't have a lot of experience in OT, and thus are completely unqualified to state your opinion on this issue)

All we ask, is that games be won fairly based on the game mechanics and not upon some contrived mechanism that is radically different from the normal game ruleset.

I can't think of a single sport or online video game that changes the rules completely for the losing team to stand a chance after a regulation time hits. Do fighting games like Street Fighter have matches that run out of time reset the life bars and continue fighting? Do shooters like MW change to sudden death mode when the time limit hits? NO, they all END with the current winner as the true winner. Why should this be any different?

So here is an idea... why wait for OT to make the bots tougher? In Blitz mode the bots get faster and stronger as the game progresses so why doesn't Crossfire do the same thing?

Imagine if the first 5 minutes were normal and then a single Jackbot spawned for each side. Pretty standard so far, right? Now after the Jackbots spawns a new set of Slims and Blackjacks spawn with increased stats. After another 5 minutes 2 Jackbots spawn followed by even tougher Slims and Blackjacks. If the game manages to make it to OT then Jackbots will spawn exclusively.

In this manner the game gets tougher progressively instead of ramping up only in OT. It would likely force players to lane push or upgrade their defenses more quickly and would cause less games to actually make it into OT. Am I crazy or is this idea so simple that it might actually work?

Lets just put it this way everyone plays the game differently. We all know that no matter what there will be those players that try to get the best advantage for the rest.

If a team wants to camp and turtle up in there base fine. That means your bot line can and should be right outside their base. Farm their bots the aren't pushing and buy juice early don't use it to kill the other pros, use it to take out their turrets. Why? So you bots can bring the moneyball down. It's common sense.

Also is OT is coming then buy Juice of your own but don't use it to go after their moneyball. Use it to stop their juicers. Or better yet try to get them before they can buy juice. It's common sense.

The moneyball dropping in OT is fine. In my opinion Overtime is fine. It's just the fact that players are rewarded for basically not doing anything all match with a cheap $500 answer to beat the better team and players.

Lets just face it the easiest fix to OT is communicating players. So if anything blame the majority of the public community. No matter how team-oriented a game is the majority of gamers are still selfish.

[Edit[

How does that stop turtling up and saving for Juice in OT?

So convincing hordes of people to not take advantage of the system as it is is easier than having the winner be the one who did the most damage?

Why patch games at all then? Can't we just talk to everyone and hope they won't exploit loopholes and unforeseen consequences?

:shock:
:lol:

Ahaha that would be awesome.

I've seen this argument in a few variations over the course of this thread. Since a dev stated that OT was intended to work this way, we can tautologically assume that OT was intended to work this way.

Quite frankly, I don't have a problem with it. If everyone is Juice rushing each others' base, it does become crazy and exciting. I could see how people who try to use regular strategy in this mode would be frustrated. Stomping your foot on the ground and demanding OT be some derivative of the pace and play of regular time will probably only perpetuate your dissatisfaction. Maybe you could try the all-out attack strategy that the devs intended.

Reading that actually helped. The way the game is now actually would mean vey anti climatic match endings. That doesn't change that subverting the tower defense portion of the game is equally lame.

I'd be all for OT staying minus the ball shield dropping automatically. At least then assassins and assault wouldn't keep stealing wins for otherwise terrible teams.

Even if OT was intended to work this way, it still encourages the regular playtime to work differently. Instead of buying bots or turrets, everyone saves their money for a round of juice or two (or three) come OT. I can't imagine they also intended people to ignore the tower defense style of the game during regular gameplay as well.

What do you expect?!? The majority of people playing MNC are NOT tower defense players. They are the people playing and useing the same tactics you would see them use in TF2. You cannot control how other people play the game. Uber is not going to be like "You guys aren't playing our game right we need to change something."

Also the ball not dropping in Overtime means that there is no Overtime, imo. It would just mean 2 minutes left in the game.

Nick War how is using Juice on the Moneyball in Overtime an exploit or an unforeseen consequence? You can use it on the Moneyball during regulation play. Who said I was trying to convince people to not take advantage. Use the "advantage" but don't be a one man army. You have teammates for a reason.

Are you serious? All games increase the frequency of the behaviors they reward. This is simple behaviorism. It's why you have MMO players grinding for hours to get their next ding, MW2 players using weapons they don't really like to complete challenges, or people playing games just to get achievements.

You don't think that if OT only happened in a tie, people would focus more on the TD in the regular portion of the game?

That's not the unforeseen consequence - IGNORING the tower defense portion of the game during regular play so you can pull out the win in OT by juicing is. I get that the developers designed OT to be exciting, but I HIGHLY doubt they meant for people in regular time to just sit around, farm bots for money, ignore their own bots and turrets, and just wait for OT.

If the devs intended this to be the case, then I'll stand corrected and delete the game immediately, but I've seen nothing to suggest this.

Like I said other people will play the game the way they want. Intended or not. It's safe to say that the thought of a team just sitting back and "waiting" has come across their minds. That's why there are certain incentives to leave the base and help push your bot line forward. Annihilator, Ejector, Juice Buys, and Bullseye.

Why would you use any of those things in regular time besides maybe Bullseye if you were just going to wait until OT to juice the MB? (Also, you don't need to venture far to use an Ejector.) In any case, the proof is in the play. People AREN'T leaving their side of the line because they're not interested in escorting their bots.

And what part of the thread you link to proves your point? Obviously OT works as they coded it. We all have been talking about its effects on regular play, which is not addressed by the developer in that thread.

If their bots are going nowhere and their base defense is in ruins how are they making money? They are making money because we are letting them.

By killing bots and enemy pros. I guess the solution would be to hang back as well. Wheee! That'd be fun.

Turtling only works because the bots that are pushed into the enemy base are weak and take little time to destroy. If the bots are able to approach the enemy base with minimal damage but have 200% health, move faster and deal more damage then they will require more effort to destroy. Over time these buffed bots will simply overcome the defenses because the turtled team will not be able to overcome both them and the Pros that are attacking. Keep in mind that when a moneyball is down that team's bots spawn with 50% health so once this starts it will be very difficult for the defending team to stop the onslaught.

Sure there would be some cases where games still go into OT but at least fewer matches would end this way. I still feel that a 60 second cooldown on purchasing Juice and not having the moneyball drop in OT would solve many of the current problems though.

We should be able to veto Overtime in the lobby IMO, or at least have a yes/no option when entering Crossfire mode because I agree with the OP, it is awful and can make entire games redundant.