Ai its kicking my butt! :/

Discussion in 'Planetary Annihilation General Discussion' started by RMJ, November 12, 2013.

  1. stormingkiwi

    stormingkiwi Post Master General

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    Yep. That's the AI's weakness.

    Basically the best advice for dealing with the AI is not to turtle at all. Build what defences you need to hold the line if you come under pressure, amass a good mix of units (include some antiair capability and some aerial capability). Win some serious map control for yourself, but make absolute sure that it doesn't become a game of North Pole vs South Pole, because you'll lose. Keep the AI well scouted so you know what it's up to, how far its expanded and where its weak points are.

    Don't assume that the AI has spawned somewhere random. Start scouting close first, then far away. If you can, throw up a cheeky early proxy next to the AI base. I prefer to make it a bot proxy to strafe the AI's turret line.

    Keep your commander safe. It doesn't matter if he's where the action is and on the front lines, so long as he's surrounded by your units.
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  2. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    it's interesting that finally we have an AI that teaches you from the getgo not to turtle, wheras in FA campaign and facing off the original hardestAI you where forced to.
    ....leading to a harsh transition to multiplayer, if a transition could ever be managed.

    I like this much better.
  3. RMJ

    RMJ Active Member

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    Well i have definitely improved lots of good tips and links. Finally beat it.

    Turtle is definitely bad, because it will just take over like THE WHOLE PLANET.

    Pretty fun to play with AI now, its really a hectic game, lots of stuff going on attacks, explosions.

    The Ai seems pretty smart, at one point i choose to not attack where i had my units, instead it just stopped its own units and build some of those big long range cannons. Man they are annoying lol.
    Last edited: November 14, 2013
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  4. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    wait 'till it starts cranking out catapults instead :) then the real fun begins!
  5. l3tuce

    l3tuce Active Member

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    Well I haven't lost yet to the AI on small maps, but on a size 4 it beat me the other day. I decided to turtle up and see what it would do, and it eventually managed to penetrate my defenses.

    After the match I saw it's base was a multi tentacled monster covering an entire hemisphere with rows and rows of factories sending constant streams of troops straight into the parts of my base I hadn't walled (not literally, I use lose rows of turrets and arty as walls) off yet. In the beginning it was just throwing units into my cannon fire, but once it found the gap it went in and struck deep into my base. I should have expanded faster and used more T2 defenses if I wanted to keep turtling.
  6. nixtempestas

    nixtempestas Post Master General

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    The AI is right foul nasty on big maps.

    The last time it beat me, it got a brilliant start position, and went psycho nuke/adv bomber and had a base complete with multiple advanced factories on the moon before I'd even made orbital. Was a rather rude surprise. The bombers shredded my defenses and I barely got my com off world before I got hit by three nukes, only to land on a moon with roaming death balls.

    Sadly the game sim slowed down to a crawl so I couldn't actually finish the game, but my survival was unlikely.

    Had to change tactics after that.

    Now just imagine when it starts parking missile ships off the shores of your base... or smashing asteroids into you...
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  7. rockhawk

    rockhawk New Member

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    Just played against the AI on 1.2x resource, which was a reasonable game with the AI building a base that was difficult to attack over land. I won with a T2 bomber and nuke strike on his commander at the end.

    Looking at the chronocam though, he'd built 3 nuke launchers but hadn't finished any missiles. If it had assisted fabbing nukes instead of building multiple launchers I'd probably have been radioactive toast before I could pull off the snipe. Does the AI ever assist buildings?
  8. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    No, it only assists constructing them sporadically. It also doesn't reassign fabbers if they get destroyed. Handicap them by taking out fabbers.
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  9. doud

    doud Well-Known Member

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    i think for the very first time (Sorry never tested your Ai on supcom) in my 20 years of RTS player, i'm playing against an AI which look like human. It will try to take advantage of all mistakes i'm doing. For the very first time I enjoy playing against the computer. Of course it's far from being perfect, but really, it's working very nicely like no other AI did it before in an RTS game.
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  10. maxcomander

    maxcomander Active Member

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    I just HAD to chime in on this one. The recent Ai improvement's have really made large games come alive. I tend to set the economy rate to 2 for me and the a.i. and use moon biome and planet radius at around 950 (big game).

    At these settings I found the Ai to be a real challenge, and very enjoyable to play. Games often lasted quite long with the balance of power shifting between us.

    You rock, being part of this beta has been a real privilege for me.
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  11. agmarstrick

    agmarstrick Member

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    It is without a doubt in my mind, the best rts Ai I've played against. It's ability to find and exploit weak points is frankly astonishing.
    Moreover, it's fun to play against, it keeps you on your toes and engaged with the game.
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  12. nixtempestas

    nixtempestas Post Master General

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    Its almost spooky, once it has intelligent fabbers and commander AI, that thing could be nasty.

    Or god forbid naval and decent orbital unit utilization.
  13. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    Or intelligent platoon behaviors via neural networks.
  14. stormingkiwi

    stormingkiwi Post Master General

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    Oh uh...

    Don't forget to build energy in the first 5 minutes.
  15. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    I noticed that if you bump up the AIs economy it goes factory first. Nice.
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  16. Sorian

    Sorian Official PA

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    I tried to make everything regarding AI decision making based around ratios. This means the build conditions should work regardless of balance changes, cheating adjustments, or mods (to a point). If you give the AI a huge resource bonus, expect it to build less resource buildings and more factories. Give it a deficit and the opposite will be true.
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  17. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    But why is it going energy first at a ratio of 1? I believe the current thinking is MEX, energy, MEX, MEX, (MEX?) factory. I'm curious whether this is an issue in the way it calculates, or the player base has done some shitty maths.

    Reminds me of the way the TA AI always went for the wrong resource first too :)
  18. Sorian

    Sorian Official PA

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    The reason is quite simple.

    The way the AI econ works is this:
    The AI goes through its list of build items in priority order until it finds something it can do.
    If anything fails the "CanAffordPotentialDrain" check, the AI remembers that fact by storing how much Energy and/or Metal income it needs to support what it wanted to build.
    The build conditions "DesireMetal" and "DesireEnergy" check this stored value.
    Currently the build item for the basic energy generator has a slightly higher priority than the basic mex. If I were to make the mex a higher priority it would build mex first.

    This system allows the AI to do things like build energy or extractors to support a factory it wants to build rather than just building the factory, crashing its econ, and spending time building up the economy to support the factory after the fact.

    There are also systems to allow the AI to build said factory while the energy generator or metal extractor that is needed to support the factory is under construction so that the AI does not have to wait for the generator or extractor to be completed. This functionality is what the "PotentialEconCheck", "PotentialEnergyEfficiency", "PotentialMetalEfficiency", and "CanAffordBuildDemand" conditions are for.
  19. chronosoul

    chronosoul Well-Known Member

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    Looking at that code its actually quite cool to see how the computer thinks...

    While you're at it Sorian can you put somewhere "AntiSelfAware" so the level of computer critical thinking gets maxed out and dumped to make sure it doesn't take over PA and make its start for planetary domination. That would be great.
  20. doctorfiet

    doctorfiet Member

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    Definitly have to cite xkcd.com here :

    [​IMG]
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