ACU snipes

I agree, but when you send 20 gunships directly at my commander in the middle of my base and kill him, it is a little silly.

Or in the beginning of the game, when 1 or 2 bombers can end the game.

I am not talking about when you get caught out, but when you can lose far quicker then should be possible because of the way the game works.

This isn't about losing, its about losing in a way that's not fun for anyone, especially the victor.

That's less the problem of sniping and more so the problem of unit balance.

Mike

If you didn't spot the 20 gunships being built and prepare an adequate defense then you deserve to lose.

Yes

also, best ACU - > ACU snipe evaa =)
http://youtu.be/l3ZFTzzcySU?t=1m59s
not really, but this topic made me think of this match.

I like the jib of your cut. Or is it the other way around?

Anyway, I feel like commander snipes are in some way analogous to a Zerg Rush. As I said before, adhering to the rule of the game but not the spirit. Basically a way to bypass most game mechanics and content in favor of forcing an outcome NOW, without a ton of care for what that outcome is.

Zerg rushes are different because it's an allin and you have little recourse if it fails, whereas these are often just one of many options and have a finite resource cost that doesn't create a major negative impact on your economy. The point still stands however, it's missing the forest for the central tree.

I'm not arguing against sniping, I just ask to make it less possible with dumb attacks like "just take moar bombers". Getting stealthed engi behind enemy base and making T2 TM snipe, or spider rush is perfect example of good and smart sniping. Nuke rush is other one.

30 T3 bombers or gunships is example of bad, but most easy sniping. Telelazer is another one.

The essence of this thread is "In SupCom dumb sniping was a problem, but it could have been countered to some measure with shields. There would be no shields in PA - how to counter now?". Uber says "let's just hide your commander outside of enemy reach". While it's great, I don't feel like it should be only possible option.

In both of your examples shields made no difference to the outcome, you lost because you failed to scout/anticipate your enemy enough to prevent the snipe, whilst allowing them the spare resources to do so.

I don't think a shield would stop a gunship or ML or nuke anyways..

Well, if you are front on Setons and you have active opposition, but your air guy failed than you the first target to snipe. Shields are just protection against first pass, if you have enough SAMs and Flaks than it would be no second pass. Yes, you still need to scout/anticipate to build all this defences, including shields (a lots of them). Without shields in same situation you will be bombed at first pass, no matter how much AA you have.

Well, of course, it's supcom problem that air once lost could not be regained again (if everyone playing smart), but that's probably correct way of things.

Again, I'm against "dumb" snipe, when you know about sniping force preparing, but can't do anything to stop them. If you failed to detect stealthed TM launchers near your base and your ACU suddenly received a load of TMs - it's your only fault. Same with early nuke, spider rush or stealthed bombers that no one expect.

But if you are front only-ground guy and your air guy failed, it doesn't feel good to have no means to protect yourself against air. It just invalidates the need for most point AA defenses.

Says it all really.

So much bad and wrong here Imma leave it.

Yes, front on Setons is quite dependant from it's teammates and in most cases can't just move his ACU out of front line (due to it's great ground battle capabilities). And shields are good thing against many naval or air threats (together with anti-TM and AA) which may allow you to concentrate on pushing ground line.

It's example from SupCom, but in PA you may easily get same situation unless you've hidden your ACU on some asteroid. As Setons' front you also may hide your ACU underwater, but it will make it just useless liability.

20 gunships cost as much mass as two T2 shields, one t2 power and six t2 flak, which destroy 20 gunships before they can down those shields and kill your (unupgraded) ACU quite handily. If you got sniped by 20 gunships, it's not because snipes are OP, it's because you suck and didn't build defences, or you were losing the game anyway and hadn't realised it. You can't snipe a player that doesn't make a mistake in FA. What people are asking for is basically "I want the ability to make more mistakes than my opponent and not lose.", which isn't surprising because this forum is full of people who love Thermo No Air 20Min No Rush No Game Enders No Fun games.

Yeap. That's right, but if you'll bother yourself with little more reading of topic you are plugging in then you'll know that question is about "there is no more shields, so what now". And yes, gunships are not very good for sniping - bombers are better - if attacker is not complete noob they will be able to make first drop. No shields in that case mean instant death for upgraded or not ACU. Even if you are underwater - it's instant death due to splash damage, actually.

In FA you have shields and snipping is more or less counterable without hiding (unless you are losing anyway), without shields your only option is to hide, which means that your ACU just stuck into some deep lake with number of stealth generators in transports over him. ACU - out of end-game. I'm trying to came with suggestions how to make ACU more usable without increasing risk of dumb sniping.

Move it off world?

I doubt bombers can travel between worlds, even if there is a unit, ability or something that can transport them i assume its rather late game and something you would be able to plan against.

I already edit-answered about that. It's to "hide" it. Yeap, that's a perfect solution, but it doesn't much different from being stuck into lake

It can building a base on a new world that both helps your economy and produces more units that you may be able to send to reinforce the front (depending on the tech and cost needed to send armies between worlds).

I say its very different from hiding it in a lake.

The problem with aircraft in RTS games in general is that a lot of ways to block them do not apply. They are either destroyed, or they reach their target in regular time. There is no way to divert them, slow them, make them work for passage, etc.

With a possibility to deal with this, a lot of old (broken) mechanics of aerial sniping can be removed.

And they can be as simply as a storm-projector that forces planes to fly around the area it targets. (The problem with heavier AA as denial is that the AI will simply get the planes killed, but if you make an AA gun that projects a 'cannot fly here' field, the planes will avoid it and find a new path automatically)

That way you don't need shields anymore and the aerial fight becomes a lot more interesting. Lack of terrain in general is a problem with air-battles. Makes them less dynamic.

Imagine playing a ground battle on a completely flat map, it'd be a lot more boring. And then you are still dealing with units that can bump into each other and leave wreckages.

Likewise bad weather, high spires, floating islands, flying fortresses, and any other object that would force a plane off-course for whatever reason would help a lot to spice up the fight in the skies. Especially on Gas planets this can be a great way to keep the terrain interesting.

Then that may be where the problem for lies.

Thank you for actually responding properly and not going 'STFU NOOB go play Thermo!'.

As long as we don't get the stupid stuff you get in SupCom then I'll be happy.

I think my stomach just turned into a nanolathe. I've been constructing units non stop since reading this.

FYI:
cloak.
Cloak.
Cloak.
CLOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAK.
Every single issue presented so far is a problem of having your commander discovered. It has nothing to do with how good or bad he is in combat, and it's not that much of an air issue either. If air units were weaker, the only change is that 50 gunships would be needed for the snipe. So CLOAK, dammit.