A collector's ruin and nightmare.

Ok then, so lets take a look at rewards across editions, and try to see what is really backer exclusive, what "bang" you get for your buck and how "unique" being a backer really is. Quantity vs quality, backer vs non-backer, egg vs chicken. All those things may or may not be discussed when this reply is posted.

Editions, rewards/goodies and price:

Steam (Early access):
Price:
As I type this is on sale on steam for 15,63€ which is possible 15,63$ in america. (Yes steam rips people from non-american countries off as they are saying that 1 euro or pound is the same as an american dollar, when clearly it is not as american dollars are worth less that both pounds and euros, but this is a problem with steam not PA).
Goodies/rewards:

• Early access Alpha/beta/gamma stage (If you bought it in alpha you got access to alpha etc etc, however it was more expensive back then).
• Theta commander:The Theta Commander is a hulking and unique shell only available to those who purchase the game in Early Access or pre-purchase the title at a later date.
• Digital Soundtrack:
• Desktop Wallpaper: This is the official full release Planetary Annihilation wallpaper and will come in a variety of resolutions for you to choose. Design to be finalized by release.
• Digital Artbook - From early concepts to renders, this is a compilation of the art and design that went into Planetary Annihilation. To be finalized by release

G.W.U Edition (Uber store):
Price:
25$
Goodies/Rewards:
Same as steam edition.
However! the description of the Theta commander is as follows:

• Theta Commander: The Theta Commander is a hulking and unique shell only available to those who purchase the Instant Access versions of Planetary Annihilation.

Also behind the small picture of the Theta Commander (under the G.W.U Edition headline) it says "Early access exclusive".

Now what, do pray tell is the difference between "Early access", "Pre-purchase at later date" and "Instant Access"?

The G.W.U edition says "Early access exclusive" does this mean that the Theta commander should not be available to people who "Pre-purchase at a later date" or have the "instant Access" version?.
The Steam edition says "Early access or pre-puchase exclusive" which then should mean "instant access" is off the list?

There are discrepancies here. Either it is exclusive to one edition or it is not. One could argue that these editions are the same thing, but then I would argue as to why you would make any naming distinction at all?.

Planetary Annihilation Early Access Version (In collaboration with Nordic Games):
Price:
from 49.99$
Goodies/Rewards:

• "Edition offers all the content the current digital version has, but delivered in a way that fans who prefer the brick-and-mortar experience can enjoy."

I can only assume this means all of the awards i listed in the editions above?

• Exclusive Armalisk Commander.

Planetary Annihilation - Collector's Edition - Only at Game:

Price:
59.99£

• A full copy of the game
• A digital wallpaper
• Digital soundtrack
• "Gamma" Commander
• Collector "Calyx" Commander
• A Logitech G300 Gaming Mouse
• An Artbook

Combat Edition:
(Since links to the following editions have been taken down, I can only reference the PA wiki for rewards.)
Price:
40$
Goodies/Rewards:

• Theta Commander:
• Soundtrack download
• Desktop wallpaper

Warfare Edition:
Price:
60$
Goodies/Rewards:
All combat edition rewards +

• Beta Access

Galactic Edition:
Price:
90$
Goodies/Rewards:
All Warfare edition rewards +

• Alpha Access
• Digital artbook

Cosmic Edition:
All Galactic edition rewards +

• Imperial Delta Commander
• "Commander" Accreditation
• Planetary Naming
• Founding Commander Badge
• Commemorative limited edition game box
• Commander miniatures
• Printed hardcopy of artbook
• PA T-shirt
• PA Asteroid Pin flair for SMNC
• PA Asteroid Belt flair for SMNC

Kickstarter backers:
Tier 1 (15$) = A key for the game emailed to you, "Exclusive Wallpaper" and SMNC asteroid flair pin.

Conclusion: Today on steam if you pay 00.63$ more than this tier you get the game in early access + a wallpaper, Theta commander, digital soundtrack and a digital artbook.
This makes this a horrible value for money in comparison. Not only do they get the game earlier than the backer, they also get more rewards for negligible more money.

Now I know some of the arguments people will have against my statement (There are others as well, but these are the ones I can think of right now without wasting too much time thinking about it instead of finishing this post):
"Steam put it on discount, this is out of Ubers control"
False. Steam used to restrict it so that only steam/valve could discount games/have sales on steam. This is now fully under the control of Uber.

"You can't compare a discounted game price to a non discounted one"
The whole point of the tier was to get the game at a reduced price on release, if you can get the game before release at the same price (I consider .63$ to be roughly the same price, the difference is negligible), why would you not choose that option instead? Even if you don't want to play an "unfinished" game, you can still have it updated and loaded in faster than someone who gets their key emailed to them.

"But you get an SMNC pin!"
I backed Planetary Annihilation, not SMNC. Even though there are people who want the pin, I doubt the majority of people backed the game so they could get "flair" in a different game. Also on the https://www.kickstarter.com/project...nihilation-a-next-generation-rts/posts/307450 list it says "Exclusive" which it is not since it is also available in other editions.

What do i suggest Uber do? Well the damage has already been done with the low price steam edition, so either give the backers the same rewards as the steam edition, or at least give them early access.

Post getting too long: To be continued:

Why is there no kickstarter tears in this? Also a backer is somebody who pledged during kickstarter campaign; everybody else is a pre-order.

Kickstarter backers (continued from other post):

Tier 2 (20$) = Same as 15$ tier.

Conclusion: Being "late"/"not an early bird" meant you had to pay 5$ more. Which is more than what the steam edition currently costs. Even worse value for your money than the 15$ tier.

Tier 3 (40$) = same as 20$ tier +

• Beta access
• Digital soundtrack
• Access to the backer exclusive forums

Conclusion: Steam users had to pay the same price when their version was released, and they ended up with more to show for it. Now they can pay less and get more.
Yes the backer forums is a good thing, but plenty of people will not even care about the forums, and in time it will be of no value as the forums will either be shut down, or all activity will cease there. (Same can be argued for the beta access of course, but that is a lengthy discussion best suited for another topic).

Also I can't seem to find any info if the cosmic edition buyers got access to the backer forums or not. If they do then it is not backer exclusive, but I'm going to assume they didn't get access to it.

Tier 4 (50$) = same as 40$ tier +

• Limited edition progenitor commander. Backers only.

Conclusion:
Now up to this point this is actually exclusive to backers. Which is great! You now have an exclusive (so far) backer only commander! However you will soon meet commanders on the battlefield that you did not get access to:
Namely the "Theta commander" someone got for 25$ and the "armalisk commander" which someone got for 50$. So on a "number of commander basis" you are still "equal" to people who bought those editions.

Tier 5 (90$) = same as 50$ tier +

• "Exclusive" PA asteroid pin & Asteroid Belt flair items for SMNC.
• Alpha and Beta Access
• Limited edition in-game Alpha commander, only available to backers
• Digital art book
• Name in credits

Conclusion:
Again the pin and flair item is not exclusive as it is available in other editions.
The G.W.U, Steam and Nordic Edition all include the digital artbook. And all of those editions are less than 90$.
In fact the only thing unique to this tier is the alpha commander. All the other rewards can be gotten elsewhere.

To be honest by this point I've become tired and bored of listing all the rewards (which honestly should not have been necessary) so I apologize if I miss out on anything.

Tier 6 (140$) = same as 90$ tier +

• Name a planet

Conclusion: Was available in the cosmic edition so nothing new here. With the exception of the commanders this tier is basically just a discount on the cosmic edition. And the cosmic edition gets physical rewards as well. Which from a collector's standpoint is way better than pure digital items. I can't see anywhere that this tier was named "Cosmic edition discount".

Tier 5 -Physical (100$) same as 90$ digital tier +

• Commemorative limited edition full size game box
• Exclusive backer t-shirt (Choice of size in one of three unique designs)
• Three limited edition commander miniatures each over 3” tall

Conclusion: It says exclusive backer t-shirt, but since "exclusive" have been thrown around so much I'm quite skeptical. The commander figures are part of the Cosmic edition as well. So is the "Commemorative limited edition full size game box. I hope this edition of the game box has something that sets it apart from the box the cosmic edition has (maybe a kickstarter icon or a "thanks for backing", but I highly doubt it. Cosmic edition also includes a shirt.
Yet again I have to say this feels like a discount for the cosmic edition, which included an art book as well. Which I would really like to have, but that was never available to kickstarter backers.

Tier 6 - Physical (150$) same as 100$ tier +

• Your name used to generate planet names in game.

Conclusion: This is the tier that I backed. I essentially paid 50$ extra to have my name on a planet in game. I can't find my name on any planet in-game, because it is clogged up by all the people who bought the cosmic edition. Which were also added to the game before my name was, even though I backed the game. As if to say that backing the game was of a contribution than buying an edition that came afterwards. Yes I know they paid more for it, but without backers there would be no game at all. Also I do not get the Hardcopy artbook without signatures that the cosmic edition gets, as there was no hardcopy artbook available without signatures.
There is neither any mention of a Theta commander (which I have for some reason) nor any mention of a "Founding commander badge" on the reward list.
Once again I feel like I just bought a discounted cosmic edition minus a hardcopy artbook.

This reward list that is:
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...nihilation-a-next-generation-rts/posts/307450

Sadly I have some things to do, and I have used more time than I had for this post, which has degraded the quality of the post (quite stressed at the end so I bet I have forgotten something, also my arguments are not as thought out as they should have been).

So I will come back to this later:

To be continued (With higher tiers and the end conclusion to all of this).

I assume you mean tiers and not me crying hehe. I did say the post was to be continued, If I write too long post I hit the word limit.
I know what a backer is, please read the post again to see what my question really is.

I won't give a detailed answer on these multiple walls of text anymore, but in general I have the feeling you are turning around my words :S But my "cool guy" thing was about people grinding as much money as possible out of "stupid" (I am like that myself, not trying to actually attack anyone with this) collectors isn't a bad thing. Has nothing to do with poor people anyway. Uber has a monopoly on PA (why even talk about a monopoly on video games?) and the copyright law is the basis on which they can "rip" us off our money based on a bazillion editions as much as they want.

Also you're definition of exclusive is weird to me. The backers had exclusive early access. Yes only for a few days, but the "early" part never said for how long that would last.
Also your idea of "they now create more exclusive things that are exclusive to retail preorders is bad for backers" is just not correct imho. Just because the KS gives you some exclusive things does not mean that Uber cannot later offer other exclusive stuff to other people. If this annoys you so much, you should change your hobby really. Collecting stuff like this from companies that have a quite legal monopoly on the good (the PA intellectual property and yes the copyright law is just that: A law that grants monopolies to the creators of imaginary things like PA) really is all about buying every stupid edition, knowing that 3 more will follow. You're actively engaging into buying stuff you don't need basically. I am as well, but we both should realize that this activity will be abused by content creators and that they have the good right to do so. (Not to mention that Uber isn't actually targeting collectors with what they are doing. You could be off far worse, really)

If you buy PA today you're late a YEAR. Like you have to wait a full YEAR without even playing. The theta was given to all backers. The soundtrack never was meant to be exclusive. The digitial artbook was not marked "exclusive" as well.

There are a thousands of backers that provided thousands of names. A few more are not the issue. I am actually not sure if the names are all in the game already.

Generally you're expecting too much exclusivity. Realize Uber is a company selling you a game to make money.

Um actually no that is a Kickstarter backer. I missed the kickstarter but I still payed on the Uber site before the game reached the Alpha stage. That makes me a backer as well, not a pre-order. So, does that mean that I should not get the things that have been promised to me? No absolutely not. Also, the devs had the website purchases shortly after they started the kickstarter, so I don't completely see your point.

Don't take it personal please but in my opinion you are being a little selfish.

I'm just using the same terminology that Uber uses. During the kickstarter campaign you could pledge through kickstarter or PayPal and a little bit time afterwards you could still pledge towards the campaign through PayPal. As this knowledge base article tells you below.

- http://support.uberent.com/kb/faq.php?id=17

tl;dr: Backer equal to early backer equal to kickstarter backer. (pledge through kickstarter or PayPal during a limited period of time.)

Edit: in fact this sub-forum was originally restricted to backers only. Eventually was opened up to everybody that pre-ordered the game as well.

Edit2: added additional quote.

ok my misunderstanding but still its a game to be played and enjoyed, but OP seems to just want to rub it in peoples faces that they didn't pay when he did.

Absolutely, which is why I don't go around telling people my pledge level and I believe shouldn't go around rubbing it in peoples faces as well.

Edit: also that I'm backer unless context requires it.

Cola_conny

That is probably for the best, this topic has dragged on without really getting anywhere.
Me and you discussing this gets us nowhere, Hopefully an Uber employee has a good answer for me/us. (If they bother to read my walls of text).

Me twisting around your words was never my intention, I took your "cool guy" statement out of context, and thought it was a general opinion from you that "Sellers who push the prices as much as possible in every situation are cool guys". I failed to see it was only part of what you specifically said there and for that i apologize. (I went back and read it again). And rest assured I do not feel "attacked" by you. You have not acted aggressive, nor have you tried to troll or otherwise not have a meaningful discussion.

This was me taking your statement out of context, and providing a counter argument to yours.

Monopoly is when a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular commodity. Commodity is a class of goods for instance "Oil", "Video games", "Copper", Light bulbs.
PA is per definition not a commodity, but part of a class of commodities. Thus it is not monopolized.

Cola is a brand, however Pepsi still exists. If cola had monopoly, then Pepsi could not exist. As Cola had monopolized that type of commodity. (The commodity here being that type of drink).
Hence why I mentioned video games.

.

Yes it is fully in their right to "rip us off with a bazillion editions", to which my point is that they could at least make some of those items available to us backers who helped them make the game, which is not something I'm demanding (that would just be silly) it is something however I'm asking (There is no harm in asking). And I'm making plenty of suggestions and/or arguments to why I believe it is fair to ask.
However it is not in their right to falsely advertise some items as exclusive when they are not. False advertising is not a right, it is a misconduct.

I have some solution to these "problems" that could both benefit backers and Uber themselves.

• Upgrade some of the lower tier rewards as they obviously (as explained in an earlier post) got the short end of the stick. At least so they are on par with the steam edition.
• Make the Usb-loaded version of the Nordic edition. (We are getting yet another copy of PA anyways, so why not just give us a digital version of that one?) Backers would get the Armalisk commander that way. Also this would not be a breach of the "Exclusiveness" of that commander. As that commander was bound to the edition and not venue.
• Things that were said to be "Exclusive" to backers should have been exclusive to backers and not given away to other editions. Since this was broken, then as a token of good will, why not make some of the items that were exclusive to other editions available to backers? This is already an "Exclusiveness mess" so try to make the best out of it.
• The non-signed art book was never available to backers, possible to get this as an addon?
• Stop labeling things as "Exclusives" when they are not.

Alpha and beta access was never exclusive to kickstarter, It was you who claimed that was "Super exclusive" because you could play it a few days before anyone else.

The definition of "Exclusive" is:
- not shared : available to only one person or group (backers being "one group", non-backers being another, likewise the custom commanders are exclusive to one person).
- limiting or limited to possession, control, or use by a single individual or group (same thing)
- excluding others from participation
- Catering for or available to only a few, select customers (non backers are not an exclusive group, backers however are).
there are also other definitions, but those pertain to other situations and versions of the word "exclusive" (Such as for instance "An exclusive interview etc etc").

That was not my point. My point is that giving out backer exclusive items to non backers and then afterwards making new exclusive editions that backers have no access to is bad form.
This creates a situation where backing the game put you at a disadvantage reward wise, and made you less exclusive than not backing the game (This is true at lower tiers, which I argued for in a different post and therefore there is no reason for me to post it again).
I do not expect Uber to not put out different editions of the game, I just disagree with the way it was done.

Instead of changing my hobby, I should stop collecting Uber PA editions, or any Uber game for that matter. And just be glad that all my other backed kickstarter projects kept what they promised in terms of exclusives, and also didn't end up pumping out x amounts of editions.

See above in regards to monopoly.

Actually I do realize this. I have never claimed otherwise.
Normally I would never even have this discussion when it comes to companies pumping out extra editions, but the way Uber has handled this is something I thought was something worth commenting on. In regards to backers.

If you backed the lowest tier you are STILL WAITING. And people have the game BEFORE YOU DO at a CHEAPER PRICE even though you BACKED TO GET IT CHEAPER.
I never said the digital artbook or soundtrack was exclusive. I said that you can get it cheaper on steam now and get more rewards than someone who backed the game to get it cheaper.
Cheaper, sooner and more rewards vs cheap but have to wait and no rewards.

Aha, well the theta commander was not on the backer rewards list on kickstarter so I did not know.
However this again raised the problem with is being claimed as exclusive elsewhere.

1093 backers by kickstarer, how many via paypal I don't know. Also I don't have the number for the Cosmic edition. If there are already lots of names in the game, then the cosmic edition sure didn't help.

I'm expecting the exclusivity that was promised, and since that was broken. I was hoping they would see that, and try to rectify it. And I have made suggestions as to how, and I have done so in what I have tried to keep as a polite manner as possible.

It is Uber pimping their other game which is fine. Which hopefully eventually they might be able to revive the MNC universe.

I have never said so and there is not a single line of text you can quote in this topic that says I have.
If it "seems" that way to you, then you have obviously not read the whole topic. (And if you don't really care, who can blame you for not reading the walls of text?)
My arguments are about people getting things they have paid for. And when that was broken, what should be done to rectify it.
There were plenty of people who backed the game before I did.
The only thing important here is if you are a backer or not. And if you are on these forums you are. (You paid via kickstarter/amazon or you paid via paypal during the period after kickstarer. In which people who could not back on kickstarter still had a chance to back the game).

Absolutely not, if you think so then I doubt you have read the whole topic.
No you are right you should not rub it in peoples faces, which is why I don't do so. And even if I were to do, most people would either say they don't care when I backed the game, tell me how much of a gamble kickstarting a game is, how stupid paying for an unfinished game is, or something else. I doubt rubbing your kickstarter pledge in someones face has any effect at all. (Unless you were rubbing it in a face of someone poor who wanted to kickstart, but could not. But that would just be horrible).
The reason I stated my pledge level, was that it was relevant to the discussion, and I needed to have it stated to bring context to some of my arguments.
And if I didn't state it, then I would have to eventually when making some of my arguments, and thus I might as well just state it right away.

Sure, but that was not the point.

If this is true, then this is yet another broken "Exclusive" to add to the list.

In game I see commanders like "Spiderofmean" etc that were made in collaboration with kickstarter backers. Are these commanders the 1000$ backers made?. Or are these other commanders that other people on maybe higher tiers or something have made?. Does anyone have the answer to this?.

Those commanders are from the 1k backers. They were asked if they want to sell their commanders on the store. They get a part of the $ from the sales for it.

About the monopoly in terms of copyright:

src: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly
so Uber has a monopoly on the rights on PA, just like Coca Cola has a monopoly on the term "Coca Cola"

False, all backers have access since February (? or something similar, quite a few month for sure, basically since you can buy PA-access for less than 90$ I think)

Actually most of the commanders produced so far (i.e. the theta, the delta, etc.) were given to all backers to prevent this kind of unhappiness. Only now Uber seems to stop to continue giving away all their stuff for free to every backer. 1 year after the game was first playable.

But things like the soundtrack never were promised to be exclusive. I still feel that only very few points promised to be "exclusive" were given out for reasonable prices. Yes you feel the price is not important, I know. Our judgement differs here. 250$ is a damn high price to buy in

EDIT:

Thanks

All higher tiers include all lower tiers. So that means $1000 to $10000 tiers have custom commanders as part of them. (102 custom commanders plus any additional backers that went through PayPal.)

p.s. currently answering post your prior post.

Yes I considered as such.

I really don't see your point. If you don't play Super Monday Night Combat then it really doesn't matter either way.

It was an exclusive from the $40 tier includes all higher tiers.

- https://www.kickstarter.com/project...nihilation-a-next-generation-rts/posts/307450

I'm just going to make a suggestion you read through that link above carefully.

Irrespective of the muddying of the term 'exclusive', Uber's pre-release monetisation efforts are just insane. There is still no release proper in sight, yet the game has been through more sales and features more different editions than most games have and do years after (!) their release.
To come back to the original post, it all boils down to whose greed should take precedence here: That of the developer or that of the player of the game. Because that it what it looks like from the outside. Uber having a genuine need for all this monetisation,though, would be a prospect far bleaker than simple greed.

I think think it's anything quite that depressing but we do need to realize that PA's "Market Success" in terms of release is kind of an unknown quantity. We don't know if it's going to be an amazing hit and shakes up the entire genre or end just squeezing by. What we do know is that Release is pretty much an arbitrary point within PA's Lifetime, in theory it shouldn't result in anything major changing in regards to the work on PA. Sure Release might force some priority shifts, Bug Fixing/support stuff will be important right after release and the lead up to release will be a bit of a mad dash to get the things done they want to get done for release and all that. Post Release PA needs funding just like anything else and building up a bit of a bankroll beforehand if possible is a good move to ensure that if there are things they want to do but can't make the priorities work out for release they have some funding all set to go regardless.

Also we know that PA has been, more or less, sticking with the KS pricing and that there hasn't been a set price for the release version yet so the sales could be thier way of testing the waters, we see via Steam that purchases always pick up specifically around sales which could mean that in general people still don't think it's worth the higher price yet.

Not to say I don't think there have been some odd choices here and there but as usual we have to be careful about the assumptions we make when we have so little context.

Mike

First tought : POKEMON.

Big problem...
But be "happy". There is a chance that the "physical" versions (early access and retail, deal with Nordic Games), could come with a specific code for the commander.
Thus you could, in theory, but the package, use the commander code then try to sell the game...

Little comfort in your pain.

Side note : i was a "must catch them all" person before.
I recommend you to quit the collecting. Life is so much better after...