A collector's ruin and nightmare.

Discussion in 'Backers Lounge (Read-only)' started by archmagerudi, June 22, 2014.

  1. archmagerudi

    archmagerudi New Member

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    Hello there! I'm a backer (obviously, as I am in this forum) at the 150$ tier.
    First of all I would like to apologize for any grammar/spelling mistakes (as English is not my mother tongue), and for not being succinct (I tend to babble on in conversations, and hit unsuspecting readers with walls of text in forums), but nevertheless here goes:

    (If you hate reading walls of text, and would rather just get straight to the point. Then feel free to skip the part between "the lines").
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    The reasons for me backing this game, (and why I backed it at the 150$ tier) were several:
    The first and main reason to back this game (at all ) is that Total Annihilation was one of my favorite games ever. And when I saw that a company was making somewhat of a spiritual successor to that game (yes I have played and did like Supreme commander 1+Forged Alliance) only with even bigger explosions (planets crashing into planets for f* sake!). I just had to make my contribution to make sure that this game would see the light of day!.
    The second reason which is why I backed the game at the 100$ tier, is that I am a collector of video games (only video games that I deem "good" mind you) and thus always buy "Collector's editions" and physical copies of games. I also actively seek out any special offers/promos of such games (like say a special code you get if you buy a certain energy drink, or by registering on a certain site) even if they are exclusive/in other countries than my own (ebay is a wonderful thing sometimes). Backing at the 100$ tier would ensure I got a "Special commemorative limited edition full size game box" which was right up my alley.
    The third reason which made me "up my pledge" to 150$ was that I don't really have anyone to remember me when I'm gone, so why not then at least immortalize my name in a game? The thing I devote and have devoted quite a lot of my time to. I did not kid myself by thinking that anyone would remember "me" specifically by looking at a planet named after me, but at least my name would be there. And maybe someone would see it and think "wonder who that was" or something to that effect. Plus the thought of sending a planet named after me into the faces of my enemies struck me as "cool".

    Now as a last bit of information before I get to the "point". Due to disease and a "difficult" life, I'm in a minimum wage job and I'm also uneducated (going into details about any of this is not something I currently wish to do, and it would not add much to the conversation anyways). So money is not something I have a lot of which leads me to the crux of my problem:
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    I thought that when backing at such a "high" tier (High for people like me, insignificant for others) that I would (like the other projects I have backed on kickstarter) be getting exclusive rewards that only backers on kickstarter would get. And that the "special edition" would include anything that "normal" special editions/collector's editions of the game would include (This is at least the custom with all other projects I have backed). But instead I find myself looking at editions after editions that not only offer most of what I thought to be backer exclusive, but also items that I will not be getting as part of my pledge. But worst of all, the thing that I thought would be the most exclusive of all, (the naming of a planet) is so "common" and trivial that it was not even worth upping my pledge for.

    Let me explain further:

    The "Combat Edition" is more or less equal to the 40$ backer tier. Which basically trivialises the backers who backed at 40$.
    The "Galactic Edition" includes the "Digital Artbook" which is a 90/95/100$ backer tier reward. So this is no longer exclusive to that backer tier.
    The "Cosmic Edition" is horrible. It basically gives people who buy it everything that my backer tier got, and more (Hardcover art book is not on the list of my backer tier). So now the planet names are overcrowded to the point where I still haven't found mine, (if I'm even in there). (And they even added them in before us... and it was only to a random planet name generator, so nothing special there either.) Basically my backing of this game is not a "thank you for backing and helping us make this game, but a "Thanks for backing at a discount, those who bought the cosmic edition are the real people who helped us make the game, they paid more after all".
    There is also an exclusive Collector's Edition at "Game" that includes "Two exclusive commanders" and at least one of those is not available to backers. Not only that but they get a mouse, physical copy of the artbook and the soundtrack. Thus again trivialising the soundtrack and giving out rewards that was not available to backers.
    And now yet another edition was announced that will give non-backers yet another exclusive commander not available to backers.

    So to summarize: Not only do I have to shell out 59.99(+ shipping and import tax)to get the calyx commander and the physical artbook, but I also have to shell out 52.36 (+ shipping and import tax) to get the Armalisk commander. This on top of my usb edition of the game and my backer tier (+ shipping and import tax).

    Why? Was me backing this game not enough? Do you care at all that I backed your game? Did It matter at all to you? Do you want me to use all my money on countless editions?

    I am pleading...begging on my knees here! Could you pretty please with sugar on top give backers codes to those commanders? You have given out our "backer exclusive" rewards to everyone anyways, so why not give some of their rewards to us?.
    Also, could you please make the backer "limited edition" box different from the cosmic one? So that I can at least look at it and think that I made a difference? And pretty please make a phyiscal copy of the artbook a part of that box?.

    Looking at it, I can't really see anything that is "backer exclusive" anymore...

    PS:
    Yes I do HAVE to have all the rewards, and were I rich I would have backed the highest tier as well. (Sadly that will never happen), Call it an obsession if you like, or tell me that I need help, but it won't change anything. I will have to work my *** of for months to be able to afford all those editions.
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  2. vyolin

    vyolin Well-Known Member

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    While your assessment looks alright to me, your conclusion is not going to sway anyone. You are much better off collecting physical goods if collecting stuff is what you crave.
    Your completionist attitude will only lead you to tears and poverty in the digital world, given the piece-meal-capitalism currently predominant in video games.
  3. archmagerudi

    archmagerudi New Member

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    It was not ment as a conclusion just an extra PS for people who were inevetably going to reply with "Just don't buy all the editions, you don't need them all" which is something i'm going to do (unless I don't have to. Which would be if Uber actually gave us the codes for the commanders). Compulsion or not.
    Also it does not make the rest of my post invalid.

    My assessment still holds true for all the other backers though, in the same situation. But without my "completionist attitude". Also collecting physical goods still ends me up in ruin and with several copies of the game.
    Now even though I hate games having 50 versions that are exclusive to this and that company and country, it is not unheard of and is to be expected. But I have never before seen a company give away kickstarter rewards in later editions. As those are supposed to be kickstarter exclusive and a way to thank and coerce backers into backing the project. It trivialises the worth of the backers and their contribution.

    Also to quote garat from another post:

    I don't see how the art book is "limited to higher levels" when the collector's edition at "GAME" includes the art book and that edition is 59.99. So as far as I can see this is a downright lie.

    Now if these new commanders were just DLC's inside the game, then even though I don't like the trend of DLC's it could at least be justified as "adding optional stuff to the game after release". Because expanding/patching a game after release is a good thing. However making them exclusive to other than backers is just a slap in the face.
    Also, giving backers there codes would cost uber nothing at all, a simple email with some letters and numbers is all that is required.

    I just see bad form all over the place on the way Uber has handled this.
    Last edited: June 22, 2014
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  4. PeggleFrank

    PeggleFrank Active Member

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    This has been a problem for awhile now.

    I haven't really noticed it before, because a lot of the backers didn't even care that people were getting their exclusives, so it was just never brought up.


    I support your argument, but there's one thing you missed:

    It does cost Uber to hand out codes. It's not that they instantly lose money, but they lose people who would have bought the retail editions anyway; I can't say how many people would actually do that, but it's probably very close to (if not equal to) the amount of people who want the retail editions without buying more copies of the game.
  5. archmagerudi

    archmagerudi New Member

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    It is sad that it should be a problem at all. I do hope more people who have a problem with this dare to speak up.
    And even though people don't personally care for their backer exclusives, I do hope they are objective enough to see that other people might have a problem with this, and see the points I am trying to make.


    I do apologize if I'm misunderstanding you here (since English is not my mother tongue), but as far as i understood you meant that the codes they will be giving away to backers will be games that they won't be selling as those cd-keys are effectively "used up" when used by the backers and thus they "lose" money by not selling those copies?.
    If so then they should just make different codes that act as dlc/addons for the game so backers can just type them in and unlock the commander in-game.

    If that was not what you meant, but instead you meant that if we get the codes given to us, then Uber won't be earning extra money on people like me who will be forced to buy the extra edition just to get the extra commander. Then I just have this to say:

    I concluded that Uber released these versions to get extra sales (which is the reason any gaming company release several versions, after all they do need to sell their game), and used the extra commanders as an incentive to get people to buy that version (however in doing so they slapped their backers in the face).
    This scenario would mean that Uber had no ill intent, they just handled it clumsily (which they have in the past, referring to the whole problem with steam and early access pricing).

    If however (which I don't believe they did) they released these versions with the extra commanders fully knowing that this would force certain backers to buy the game a second and third time just to get all the commanders, so that they could earn extra cash on those backers. Then they acted in egoism and borderline malice. And then I would not shed a single tear over them losing some money in the process.
    (Again I would just like to state that I do not believe Uber did this. This is just an alternate scenario).

    So either way I don't really see how doing this would lose Uber any money. (Unless I of course misunderstood your post, and if so I apologise.)
  6. squishypon3

    squishypon3 Post Master General

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    I don't understand how they slapped the backers in the face, backers knew fully well what was included in their version. Backers getting everything would actually be unfair towards people who had not backed the game originally, and not necessarily because they didn't want to, but maybe because they were too late to. 90$ Teir and above got the Alpha, Delta, Progenitor, and Theta commander, but the only way for a person to get those outside of the 90$ tier was to buy the 200$ version on Uber's website. :p
  7. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    Yes of course they went to get as much money as possible. They are a company working in a capitalistic system after all and they are producing quite an expensive product. It costs them millions to produce PA, obviously they are trying to get the money back.

    So you ask Uber to not make many different versions because you HAVE to buy them all? I can understand your sorrow as a collector, but you can't expect Uber not to produce more different versions just so you can buy all existing versions.

    As a person collecting stuff, no matter what it is, you always have to consider that companies quickly realize that collectors exist that will buy every single version at any price they name. At some point owning everything produced by a company is a nerdy way to show "I am damn rich" to people who know of the stuff you collect. Collecting stuff produced from capitalistic companies is an insanely expensive hobby that plays into the hands of the producers. (This isn't a critic to just you, I've spent far too much money on this kind of thing as well, I am guilty as well)

    Uber has been pretty aggressive with setting the early access prices high in favor of the backers who payed high prices on KS. They have done so for the backers, even though a lot of people criticized them for it.

    I have not a full overview of all the goodies that exist and at what price they are available or not to what person. Is the cosmic edition even still available? Also wasn't it like 250$? That's a lot of money and it yielded LESS than the 250$ KS tier, which gave a big poster and has everything signed by the devs. The artbook in a hardcover version for 60$ is pretty rare indeed. Though the KS backers had a chance to get a signed version of it, can't see that anywhere. So for the most part *some* KS things were available later on for *higher* prices. Some other things are not available at all anymore, a few other things (I only know of the hardcover artbook example so far) got cheap. Doesn't look too bad to me.

    Your problem may relate to the KS-nature of PA: KS forces a TON of goodies on a game at all sorts of price levels. It basically creates a chaos of editions that you all have to buy now. KS sucks for collectors.
    Last edited: June 22, 2014
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  8. Jaedrik

    Jaedrik Active Member

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    Taxes.
    The bane of any true capitalist.
    Your plight is heard, Rudi.

    Edit: Tariffs.
    Further, the bane of any true capitalist.
  9. archmagerudi

    archmagerudi New Member

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    Throwing around words like "limited" and "exclusive" is not something one should do, if one does not intend to uphold their meaning. It's just like throwing out "DRM FREE" and then making sure it has to be activated on steam.
    This is (possibly intentionally) misleading, and false advertising.
    If you bought a version of an item that was exclusive to a certain venue, then seeing that item in other venues would make you feel cheated, and rightfully so.
    I will not list the definition of the word "Exclusive" here since a simple google search will bring up sufficient sources to cement the meaning of the word.

    This is a quote from the "Planetary annihilation pledge rewards" page:

    "Exclusive wallpaper download" - This item is probably in almost every version of PA, so calling this "exclusive" is a downright mockery of the word.

    I'l just link the reward list: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...nihilation-a-next-generation-rts/posts/307450

    Store: https://store.uberent.com/Store/PreOrder?titleId=4

    GAME: http://www.game.co.uk/en/planetary-annihilation-collectors-edition-only-at-game-286251

    The other editions I have talked about before in this thread, so simply scroll up to read about them.

    So just smash together all those editions and in the end see how many items actually ended up being "Exclusive" to backers?

    False advertising.

    This is not true, several of those commanders are available through other editions of the game. Also if something is "backer exclusive" then it should be backer exclusive and not put any where else. Hence again the meaning of "exclusive".

    I have missed out on backing games I wanted to back before, namely carmageddon and wasteland 2. I missed out, that was my mistake. That however does not entitle me to buy a different edition that includes items that were advertised as being "exclusive to backers" thus devaluing the "exclusiveness" of their items. Now that would be unfair.
    Me not getting to see my favorite singer live because he died before I was born is not unfair, it is unfortunate, but not unfair.



  10. archmagerudi

    archmagerudi New Member

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    As you are not an employee of Uber (according to your signature), this question was not directed at you.
    Thus your answer is not something that resolves my problem, nor adds/retracts to/from it.

    All I can say is that if a company has a policy of promising exclusive content to backers, then goes around giving out those exclusives in other editions so they no longer become exclusives. Then goes ahead and makes editions that contains exclusives backers can not get without buying even more editions.
    Then sure they are making their money back, but they are doing it in a really dirty and sleazy way.
    (I would like to state that since you are not an employee of Uber, this is not directed at Uber, but rather at the way of doing business that you describe).


    No I'm asking Uber to include the commanders and the art book in certain tiers of kickstarter backers. Since they already gave out most of our rewards to editions anyone can buy. Give something back to us, instead of giving out our exclusives and goodies to others.
    Also it was said by an uber employee that the art book would be limited to higher tier kickstarters, yet it appears in an edition in an online shop.
    Yes the book in the kickstarter version was signed, but there was never an option to get an un-signed one. And if the signed book warrant's another 100$ while the unsigned one is included in a 60£ version that also includes a logitech mouse. The value of the art book can't be that high. At least make it an addon on kickstarter for a reasonable price.

    If you have spent far too much on this yourself. Don't you see what I'm getting at when I say that it is bad form to give out kickstarter "goodies/exclusives" to other editions, but never giving any of the things exclusive to other editions back to kickstarters? It's not even an option to pledge more to get these items as addons. At least give us that.
    If they just made new editions and kept all the kickstarter rewards exclusive to kickstarter then I would make no fuzz about it at all. Then it would be one version for backers and several others for people who did not back the game. But to give out most of our rewards to other editions, and then on top of that make new editions with exclusive content that we in no way can get without buy x amounts of the game, is just bad form. It really cheapens the worth of the backers. Without us, there would be no game for them to make money one.

    (And no I'm not so egotistical to assume that me backing this game is the only thing that made it get funded, I'm speaking of backers as a whole).

    Yes, and that is good. However it was their choice to give out alpha/beta access in the first place. This was something some backers probably paid extra for just to get, I dare presume that It might have been the only reason for some backers to back the game and not wait for early access. Had they known that they could get an early access version afterwards they might not have backed the game at all. They would just buy it on steam as early access since the rest of the rewards was meaningless to them anyways.


    I do not believe it is, but that is besides the point. It was available.
    Price is irrelevant, the fact that they got all the things I wanted + a thing that I didn't get makes it so that I really should have not backed this game, and instead gotten the cosmic edition. (However I did back this game as I wanted to support it). I want an art book that is unsigned, I do not want scribbles in my art book. Sure having signatures of people might be cool to some, but to me it is just someones handwriting/scribbles and it makes (in my opinion of course) the book look (for lack of a better word) "uglier". I have never held "celebrities" in "higher esteem" than other people that I actually meet and talk to (in fact it is quite the opposite) so the scribbles of people I have never met is not appealing at all. And since there was no alternative that included the hardcover art book without "scribbles" my pledge stopped at that tier.
    And now I see a hardcover art book without the "scribbles" available for about 20$'s worth in an edition exclusive to an online store. (20$ish bucks if you take away the game, the commander and the gaming mouse, probably even less). This to me is just another nail in the proverbial coffin that is my mood.


    It only sucks for me as a collector of PA. Every other game/boardgame/project that I have backed have made the kickstarter items exclusive and have not given out copies of those in other editions. And these kickstarter projects range from projects both bigger than PA, and smaller than PA.
  11. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    Personally I think it's my fault for still buying their stuff. The price of luxury goods (cause let's face it, we are talking about stuff here that nobody needs to stay alive, to just play the game you don't even need to buy extra goodies either. It is completely unreasonable to buy this stuff from an objective standpoint) is solely the fault of those who are willing to pay for them. If the seller gets away with high prices the seller is a cool intelligent guy doing everything right as far as I am concerned. I can't feel as much for the exclusivity because I never expected some wallpaper to be exclusive, I dunno what wallpaper it will be, but I am sure it'll be easy to find it on google images once it is released.
    If you want exclusive things signed stuff is actually a much much better idea. Why? Signing stuff takes time. Yes only a few sec for each item, but they will never ever sell signed stuff in random 40$ discount editions online. Ther hands would fall of, and we don't want that.

    It's a bit of paper. Maybe a few $ at most. But MAN it is the signed KS artbook that is super limited and will only be given to ... errr ... less than 750 people.
    The unsigned version obviously is boring cause everyone who cares so much about PA knows that the real thing on KS was the signed version of it while the non signed version was sold for 60$ somewhere later on. Welcome to the crazy mind of collectors.

    EDIT:
    Looking at the KS page there is a TON of stuff in all the packages. I am too lazy for it, but I am sure a full list of stuff people got at the KS and stuff people can get later will show big differences in favor of the KS backers.

    EDIT 2:
    Nope. price is everything. You could go and buy everything you want if the price is really irrelevant. Even stuff exclusive to some 1k+ packages can be easily bought. Just find the person who got it and offer them 1 million $ for it. They'll happily sell in most cases.
    Last edited: June 22, 2014
  12. archmagerudi

    archmagerudi New Member

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    Well yes of course, so is a lot of things.

    I guess you are in favor of monopoly then? People selling things way overpriced because they control the market?.
    I hardly think that you would call a seller "cool and intelligent" if he charged you twice what you normally pay for less than you usually get.
    What about someone selling low quality food to poor people for ridiculous prices?
    I know I'm putting things on edge here, but personally I fail to see how anyone who pushes the prices as far as humanly possible, instead of having fair prices would be an "cool intelligent guy".
    He might be good at what he does, but it is hardly moral.
    But this is getting way off topic.

    Wallpaper was just an example, not really the point I was trying to make. My point was that "exclusive" should be "exclusive". You can probably find a pirated copy of PA on torrents later as well, even though Uber can't stop people's ability to share their backer exclusive stuff. They can still keep it exclusive from their end.

    This would mean that it is exclusive because they don't want to put in the work/time to sign them, not because they were exclusive in the first place. Your statement indicates that if their hands would not fall off, this is something they would do.


    Anyone can pick up the regular version and have it signed, this happens to products all the time. People buy signed cd's for blood money only to meet friends who have signed cd's as well and paid the regular price. In the grand scheme of things it is not that unique. Sure you would have to meet the people and have them sign it, but it is still possible. It just takes more work than getting it in the mail.

    As for the less than 750 people part. Something being old or rare does not make it valuable. Unless it is money, an item only has value based on how much the person values it. A signed copy is for me less interesting than a non signed one. Thus to me it is worth less.

    Had you not been too lazy for it, you would see that it really doesn't. Compare all the editions and you will see that there is hardly anything unique about being a backer at all. Part from it being cheaper. Not only that, but things that were supposed to be exclusive to backers is not.

    I never said price was irrelevant in the world as we know it. I just said that in the context I was discussing. The price of the cosmic edition was irrelevant. The whole point was that it should not have existed. So yes the price was irrelevant.
    If your argument is that "Kickstarter backers got things cheaper, therefore it is ok to give away all their supposedly exclusive goodies to other that didn't back it" Then why have any rewards at all? Just sell tons of strange editions with exclusives instead. Better yet just buy a used game and get the game even cheaper.
    I see that you are clearly missing the point, especially with your last sentence.
  13. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    Uber indeed has a monopoly on PA. That's a result of copyright law.

    We are not talking about food. We are talking about people like you and me who buy games multiple times to get goodies that have little to no value from the view of a bystander. There is no moral involved here, if it all WE are immoral, because we rather should donate the money to poor people who can't afford food.

    Okay, let's stop being lazy for a bit. Here is the list of my pledge level and my knowledge of how exclusive the stuff is. Marking what I *think* is the case. Though I have not actually read all offers of PA that are all over the place in the lately. If you can correct me on any of this, please do.
    • A game key e-mailed to you & digital download => was never exclusive
    • Exclusive wallpaper download => not released, so we do not actually know if they will give a backer the same wallpaper as a buyer of that edition you linked :p
    • Exclusive PA Asteroid Pin & PA Asteroid Belt flair items for SMNC => I gave this away to some smnc player
    • Early download and access to the game during alpha & beta stages => super exclusive, played on the very first day of alpha. No steam was not that fast, they had to wait a few more days.
    • Digital download of the soundtrack => not exclusive, but exclusive is not part of the promise? it isn't even "limited"
    • Access to the exclusive backer forums => well here we are, do normal buyers of the game actually have access to this forum? I dunno xD
    • Limited edition in-game Progenitor commander, only available to backers => has this been broken?
    • Limited edition in-game Alpha commander, only available to backers => has this been broken?
    • Digital art book => nothing exclusive about it here, not "limited" either
    • Your name in the credits => part of 199$ Cosmic Limited (which isn't available anymore, also read the small print: "People who buy the Cosmic Limited Edition will be in the credits as Commanders. Anyone who was an early backer will be in the credits as a Founding Commander.")
    • Commemorative limited edition full size game box signed by the team => part of 250$ Cosmic Limited Edition, which by now no longer is available. "limited" however does not promise exclusivity to KS
    • Exclusive backer t-shirt (Choice of size in one of three unique designs) => 250$ Cosmic Limited Edition. Dunno about the designs.
    • Three limited edition commander miniatures each over 3” tall => 250$ Cosmic Limited.
    • Your name will be used to generate planet names in game => Part of cosmic digital edition for 199$
    • Exclusive full size poster signed by the team => exclusive as promised I think. Can't wait for it
    • Printed copy of the art book signed by the team => exclusive at least to me "signed" is quite different to "not signed". Sure you can get your artbook signed by meeting the devs. But really how many people will be able to meet the devs?
    Red marked stuff is where I agree on "exclusive to ks" has not been completely fulfilled. However they were only available to people willing to buy 199$ and up later on for a limited time. Doesn't look too bad to me tbh. Yes some things are available, but most of it for crazy prices for only a limited time. Yes some extras (like the mouse) are not at KS at all, but seriously it's just some random normal mouse. Also you can't expect Uber not to make any bonus package ever again for PA, just because they made a KS.

    I simply can't agree to that. 250$ is a lot of money and that edition was limited in time as well, you can't buy it anymore. My subjective feeling is: It's okay.
    Last edited: June 22, 2014
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  14. Jaedrik

    Jaedrik Active Member

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    Intellectual Property.
    The enemy of any true capitalist.
  15. CrazyVulcan

    CrazyVulcan Active Member

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    @archmagerudi , I do not have anything to add one way or the other to the debate but just wanted to say that your English is very polished. Superior to many of the M'erican pubic education system.

    -edit- yes that is a intentional pun
  16. mot9001

    mot9001 Well-Known Member

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    I read basicly all of this. Archemagerudi you are right man and its lame that people take an incredible amount of effort in trying to say your not, but actually you are. Exclusive is exclusive i already said that months ago, but apperently i learned English, not American and exclusive means something else in America. Last piece of advice is start saving money, you gonna need it.
  17. archmagerudi

    archmagerudi New Member

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    Monopoly would be if a person or enterprise is the sole supplier of a particular commodity, which uber is not. Uber would be a monopoly if it was the only company in existence to sell video games. They are not even the only store in existence to sell PA. Thus no monopoly.
    Having the rights is not the same as monopoly.
    But this is beside the point as I was not talking about Uber or PA, I was talking about your comment that someone was "cool and intelligent" if they got away with high prices. And really the best way to demand high prices is to have monopoly on something, then you can demand whatever price you want (within limits of market and other things I'm not going to get in to). Which quite a few people disagree on, hence we have "competition laws". Since monopoly is detrimental to the development of society. (Imagine one company having monopoly on a certain type of medicine that millions of people need. If that company were to charge unrealistic prices for it, lots of people would die who could not afford it).

    But yes, discussing monopoly is quite far away from the discussion of PA backer rewards, so lets stop here :).

    That was not my point, again I was referring to your comment about "cool and intelligent" sellers. We have effectively branched out into two discussions here, one for PA and one for your definition of a cool and intelligent seller. They had nothing to do with each other.
    As spending money on something you want instead of giving it to poor people is something that quite a few people in this world do. We do not go against moral laws, norms or standards. Thus we are not acting immoral.
    However saying something is exclusive when it is not, effectively lying to your consumer. Is an immoral way of doing business. So is false advertising.

    I need to make a separate post for the rest of your reply as I will hit the "post limit" on letters if I both quote your reply on backer exclusives + list in all that I have to say. So bare with me while I find all the sources and write my reply.
  18. archmagerudi

    archmagerudi New Member

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    Now let me first "Cherry pick" out some of the items on your list that you mentioned before I start working on my own:

    This is actually a fair point which leaves us with two possible options:
    If this "Exclusive wallpaper download" is the same across all editions which has it, then they downright lied to us.
    If this is unique per edition, then this adds to the pile of things non-backers get, thus (in my opinion) reducing the amount and uniqueness of backer rewards.

    As far as I can see not exclusive to KS backers. Several people on different forums report getting this with other editions.

    This is incorrect. Exclusive means it is restricted to only one person or venue (Not the exact definition, but that is what it means). Alpha/beta access was available over multiple editions, thus it was not exclusive at all. Getting it a few days ahead of time is not exclusive.
    Exclusive means exclusive, not "exclusive for a few days" regardless of personal opinions you and I might both have.
    As a collector, I know very well that getting an edition exclusive to say "north america" means I have to buy it from north america, because it will not be available in other countries.

    Unsure if cosmic edition buyers got access to the forums, and I'm unable to find out anything about it.
    However this is a typical "throw in" reward that is worthless once the game is released, unless people for some reason keep on chatting in backer forums and Uber does not close it down.

    How many people will meet the devs depens on how many actively try to do so or how many "public meetings" on conventions etc Uber devs do. So not really something I can answer. However the possibility is there.
    And not having an unsigned version available to backers. You know my opinion on this.


    One of the lowest tiers of kickstart campaign rewards is usually "early bird" or something along those lines. Which is usually "backing the game so you get it at a reduced price on release" The release of the cosmic edition gives me this subjective feeling:
    "So you backed at the 150$ tier so you could get the awesome reward of naming a planet? + lots of other goodies?" "Well what we didn`t tell you is that you basically just got a discount on something called a cosmic edition which we will release later!". "This edition will also have the planet naming in it and other kickstarter goodies, but it will also have something you couldn't get that you wanted! A physical artbook!" "Not only that, but we will put the names of the people who bought the cosmic edition into the game first!" "I mean they paid more so that would just be fair right?" "All you did was back the game!" "Also you get to enjoy a new fun mini game called "Try to find your name in this clutter of names added by that edition" "Ain't that fun? Oh and by the way... thanks for backing!"
    Now that was not meant to be condescending, and I could have worded it more eloquent and less hostile. But this was honestly the best way for me to portray how I feel.
    Once again I would like to state that I do not believe Uber actually said these things or meant it in this way, this is just how I feel.

    And now on to the time consuming list I'm going to make (Don't worry I will answer and comment on more of your post on things I have not commented on).
  19. archmagerudi

    archmagerudi New Member

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    Thanks, I try to do my best.
  20. archmagerudi

    archmagerudi New Member

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    Thanks for throwing your opinion into the mix, sadly I doubt this topic will get anywhere unless Uber themselves read it/post their opinion on the matter.

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