360 vs pc match

You and Tasker have a lovely way of being incredibly subtle in not recognising how I identify myself.
You wonder why I dislike Germans...

Somebody told me your name is Jack Clayton, I have no reason to believe otherwise unless I see some ID

Jack Clayton Kvalheim. Seems like a pretty common norwegian name.

Mitt navn er åpenbart Bjørn Bjornsenbjorn.

Boom boom boom, everybody say way-oh!

Gotcha. So how about clawing? Oh dont have to concern yourself with that on a mouse i suppose. How about the bumpers as well on that mouse? Oh wait those dont exist either. How about two devices in order to coordinate aiming? OH you click and point where you want to shoot? Damn that does sound tough. Crouch jumping does exist on console for extra vertical distance in games as well, particularly in the case of the game you are trying to downplay, halo.

I also find it amusing you try to bring up the extra movement features that PC has while defending a 1v1 game over Halo with the concept that teamwork doesn't add more skill. So lets see 4v4 vs 1v1, in 4v4 you need
More awareness
More coordination
More objective
More verbal communication
More map positioning
More than just killing
More team spawn management
More opponent spawn management

On top of all these things, you still need all the individual skills that you would need in a 1v1 arena. I dont suppose you to understand the importance and extra skill needed for team orientated shooters vs a 1v1 shooter, you're a diehard PC tunnelvisioned fanboy.

Don't take this personal though. I'm just kind of a bad *** and express my disliking for people over the internet

Wrongful comparison, you are crossing genres. I didnt compare Halo to pokemon, i compared it to PC shooters. Why choose pokemon? Because it is a global phenomenon with very good gameplay which is why it is still going strong and dominates in sales. Don't kid yourself, sales are usually based upon success. Bieber found success with the right age group at the right time, but his sales and success arent as good as Lady Gaga, and arent in the stratusphere of Michael Jackson's are they?

Why dont we get back to the OP instead of needlessly bashing console games and making fools of ourselves. If PC players want to take feedles challenge for w/e reason, great, if not scurry back to the circle jerk that is the PC section of the forum.

This argument can be reversed. In a team game, you share the load, in a 1v1 game, you have to do everything by yourself. Not to mention, if you screw up, there's noone to save you in a 1v1.

Imagine Chess. Now imagine that it would be played by four players on each side. The number of pieces remains the same, only now, the game would be much easier in practice, because the players can help each other, divide tasks, zones etc.

Also I think you significantly underestimate the amount of skill Quake takes. There's a reason it used to have regular tournaments with prize money of in the hundred thousands and a few players managed to become insanely rich by Quake and Quake alone. Note: I'm not talking about any other stereotypical PC shooter, because as far as I'm concerned, those are all either simplified versions of Quake (see: HL MP) or just bad ideas (see: Counterstrike).

And about your other post: again, popularity is meaningless as a measurement of quality. All it indicates is general appeal. Nothing more, nothing less. I could've used any other example. Now that I mention it:
Sartre's Being and Nothingness sold way more copies than Camus' The Myth of Sisyphus, yet they're both considered to be equal in quality. (in case you didn't know, those two works are basically the same thing in every respect)

Your counterargument can also be reversed. If your teammate dies you have an extra load to carry, making it harder than a 1v1. Fact is you have much MORE than just individual skill to be concerned and coordinate than in a 1v1.

Saying popularity is a meaningless measurement of quality is the dying cry of the minority who feel their breed is superior just because in one way or another takes "more skill" or they love the hipster way of thinking that anything popular sucks just because its popular. Also using music as an example is HORRIBLE because music is purely about preference and the ONLY measurement you can with success is popularity. Someone who is insanely skilled at guitar simply may not sound as appealing as a band like Blink182

There's no point arguing with him chron. I issued a challenge and he just calls the game bad. Shouldn't even sweat it because grimbar wouldn't break 10 kills against patch and shade even with a mouse and keyboard. Think I'm lying? Grimbar i'll give you a year to get the deep meta game down. If you break 10 kills, (even debating about giving you host even though your german or some ****) I'll give you 100 bucks.

The only thing is you won't get close. Now does that mean the games bad? Or you're bad?


Where's quakes 40 page manuscript detailing it's mechanics? 100% hands down Halo CE has a DEEPER meta game. ESPECIALLY for 2v2s. For clarification grimbar, that doesn't mean that it has a higher skill gap, or quicker gameplay, although Halo CE's skill gap was pretty high. Unlike Halo 3 and beyond, the skill gap was big enough to establish dynasties for teams. Players so good they almost never drop a tournament, or in some cases, rounds. I know how confused you get. The reason why you might not agree, is because you have zero experience of Halo CE at anywhere close to a mid tier level. Not even gonna shoot for top tier there.

Yeah sure grimbar, unreal championship, tournament, and nexuiz all had no strafe jumping or pogoing. I don't even except you to answer to the clawing aspect. I don't remember if you were a part of the PC group that got stomped, but whoever was on gunner could not claw for ****, but you could dismiss that if you want.

The more you talk the more wrong you are, but ain't nothing gonna stop you now.


Chron, for the sake being. Let's just stick to 2v2's since after all I'm only trying to compare Halo CE. Grimbars so used to 1v1's I guess he doesn't realize what variables there are in team play.

Grimbar, do you know what random spawns are in Halo CE? A better name would be forced random spawns, since you can control the random spawns. Probably gonna confuse you there too.

I cant understand how anyone can defend their game taking more skill if its a 1v1. I mean when comparing fighting games it makes sense but a shooter? what the fvck lol

Uhm... grimbar is a 2v2 main in Quake

Edit: Anyway, I'm done arguing this. Our views on basically anything seems to differ too much to reach an agreement Joker. Let's do the mature thing and agree to disagree while secretly thinking the other guy is a retard,

Did he seriously just try to talk about forcing spawns to a person who plays the game that INVENTED that mechanic?

I don't know **** about teamwork admittedly, didn't stop me from being a top level TF2 player in Europe (a game so casual that it might even be considered to be on the same level as Halo)

http://www.funender.com/quake/articles/ ... heory.html here's an excerpt on one particular mechanic just to get you started.

If you wanna talk deep meta you might want to look at quakeworld which over a decade still has the same people (in an active environment) POOPING all over the runner up

I was not part of said PC group

I appreciate you taking the bait but please do try harder

He is highly active in this thread, why are you talking on his behalf?

Trust me, judging by everything you say and your view on competitive FPS, i know

and yet I probably won more competitions than you playing those competitive FPS, not that that says anything of course.

Edit: other people are talking on my behalf because they know me, I'm not as randy as other people around some places.

It's hard because I'm trying to explain the depth and complexities of a game they've never played at a competitive level. They're dismissing the notion without realizing that Halo CE is the deepest game to ever grace console. (maybe tied with shadowrun)


How does the spawn system work in teamplay for quake? Beat's me, but I would have to write how the spawn system works on each specific map, because the spawn system can be manipulated to prevent spawn killing. You can force your teammate to specific spawns, or to random ones. If the enemy team is good enough, they're going to even know the random spawn locations and not go for a spawn trap. You can even blocked the forced spawn. There are so many variables. If I stand in the very back corner of blue base on Hang Em High, I can get my teammate to proximity spawn. If I jump and am mid air when his respawn says 1, I can force him to another location.

Now I mean, I understand quake is fast paced. However, on Hang Em High, depending on where I spawn, I can get the rockets/sniper and camo in 8 seconds flat, maybe even less. If I spawn ANYWHERE on hang em high, I can get the rockets and sniper in 5 seconds. So sure, movement speed is slower, but I can obtain power weapons quicker than quake, depending on the map.

Also, how is quakes kill times? How do these certain weapons work? Are they hitscan? Or are they projectile based? In Halo CE you start with a projectile based weapon with headshot damage incentive. A perfect kill is 0.6 seconds. You can kill 4 people in 2.2 seconds, which isn't bad for a console shooter that isn't supposed to be a realistic military shooter. For the record, these TSK (three shot kills, with kill times of 0.6) weren't as frequent as you'd think, considering the gun came with a distance variable. Not even the ogre twins (did ogre 2 earn more than fatality? pointless but serious question) could master the TSK, all those Ogre 2's shot was one of the best. What made them better though is their knowledge of the game, since there were others like Gintron and Killer N who were known for their shots.

Halo CE's skill gap came from empowering the individual. One can excel in that game even with a shitty teammate, despite how hard it is. (you won't be using any deep meta game if you're teammate isn't on the same page as you) However, if you're stuck against a good team of 2, there's nothing you can do to win. How does one empower the individual? Create a utility weapon that is the ultimate hold out weapon. Capable of beating any powerup or power weapon, but extremely difficult when those powerups/weapons are used in their specific niche rolls. How else? Implement weapon mechanics to allow for bullet time variables, and create headshot incentive to award those with good aim. Hmm... what else? Oh right, give the player the ability to obtain power weapons from multiple places on the map.

I feel my experience playing quake, unreal, and nexuiz, would relate to each other and I'd have a basic understanding of how to play. Forget about map knowledge or weapons for now. However, if you went into Halo CE playing like you ever did on any previous games. You're going to get raped hard.

You spawn with 100 health
Within 1 second you grab the closest major armor or health powerup
In the next second you grab the closest major weapon
In the following 2 to 5 seconds you position yourself to counter your opponents spawn
First engagement, lasts about 1 to 2 seconds

so yea it takes about anywhere between 4 and 7 seconds before the fighting starts to happen in CPM

After that, the maximum stack you can get to is 200/200 (which is quite rare in CPM). It takes 3 direct rockets kill someone who's fully stacked. Usually fights are ended within 1 to 3 seconds. A fresh spawn can be killed with 1 direct projectile hit.

Edit: About the weapons:
1. Gauntlet: hitscan melee, extremely shot range, no swing arc
2. Machine gun: weak, infinite range hitscan with high RoF. 5 damage per hit
3. Shotgun: Typical shotty, short effective range, fixed spread, aim for centre of mass
4. Grenade Launcher: Arced, slow-moving projectile, detonates either on direct hit or after a few seconds
5. Rocket Launcher: A ******* ROCKET LAUNCHER. Direct hit is 120 damage.
6. LG: Strong, finite range hitscan with high RoF. 10 damage per hit
7. Rail Gun: Strong, infinite range hitscan with a very low RoF, takes no skill whatsoever since it's just point and click. 80 damage per hit
8. Plasma Gun: Projectile weapon with a high RoF and almost no splash. Takes the most skill by far.

TF is this going on?

Is that 1v1 pill? What map is that on? Small arena style?

for the record, HEH is one of the biggest maps on the disc that is still playable.


Grimbar, I'll admit that there is more to strafe jumping then I thought, but you hardly need to decipher all that to do it. It is cool that somebody decided to look into the code and figure that out, just like it's been done with Halo CE. Also, what's "forced spawn" in your book? Because I am pretty confident were talking about two different spawn systems.


Unfortunately almost ALL of the good content, guides, and tutorials are gone for Halo CE. It was hosted on MLGpro.com for years and I wanna say after Halo 3 the site went to **** and they took down almost all their videos and sub forums.

I'm bout to contact ChaosTheory and see what he's got. He's not like us though grimbar, he's incredibly professional and always mature. If you're interested in getting your mindblown by the depth of the game, listen to him. I mean really listen to him not just your selective hearing dance. If not, well it's been pretty obvious from the start that facts won't sway your opinion.

edit: Pill - so most of the weapons are hit scan, but only a couple you have to account for any variable. While in reality, projectile based provides room for a bigger skill gap, hitscan is more reliable. I've always lead rockets and grenades.

I really don't want to get into the difference of pace and leading shots. PC is easier to make swiping movements in order lead your opponent, however the game (quake) is much faster paced. Console is much harder to make accurate sweeping movements, but the game is slower.

second edit: None of the videos or good images/threads explaining spawn mechanics are around. If you guys want me to explain the mess of these drawings, here is an incomplete listing of forced spawns random spawns and proximity spawns.
http://imgur.com/a/q2IkO invented by quake

1v1, every map, all maps are somewhat cramped in CPM, otherwise you'd be able to get way, way too much speed and running away would be easier than fighting your opponent head on.

You should note that strafe jumping is but one aspect of the CPM movement system. It's all equally hard and it all takes an equal amount of precision.

Edit: Although most weapons are hitscan, nobody uses anything but rocket and rail really. Rail because it's consistent damage and rocket because it's the second highest dps weapon in the game. While the number of weapons isn't that high, the weapon respawn timer is 5 seconds on most maps, which means actually controlling them requires a combination of good movement, reading your opponent and positioning yourself accordingly.