360 vs pc match

I have never played MNC on PC but I'm sure that the 360 players are just plain better and would smash the PC guys easily if this match actually happens.

Didn't Wildman and friends destroy Vlane and "the best team on PC version" in a PM?

This is why I keep saying you guys seem SO much more elitist. On what grounds are you basing that claim on? I'm not saying one version's players are better than the other, but this seems like baseless arrogance.

And the latter sounds pretty sketchy if you can't name "the best PC team" and even if true is very dependant on whether it was played on the console or PC version of the game

He's trolling you.

Lmfao

I feed trolls when I'm bored.

ftfy

Pitgirl still has a weird butt

MNC PART

granted, he didn't put it nicely, yeah we did scrimmage Vlane and friends. It was played on the console version of the game but I believe before you guys received some of your more game changing patches.

Unfortunately they could never get a full team together so I believe we played 3v3 or 4v4. Their gunner couldn't claw as well as wildman, so unfortunately they lost this one right off the bat. They complained a decent bit about the mechanics of the console version and difficulties of the controller, especially for the assassin.

One logical reason why he can base his assumption would be due to the fact that we had our game first, hosted our tournaments and advanced our meta game months before PC version was released. Granted we still had a long way of advancing the meta game afterwards.

I'd put my money on shadowrun players on console vs shadowrun players on PC if they had what 6 whole months of playing before PC?

CONSOLE VS PC PART

Here's the thing, and Chron helped shed some light on how competitive FPS on console has less to do with skill gaps regarding aiming and time on target. There tend to be other factors more dominant in teamplay, especially lately with the downhill trend of FPS.

Now in general, it's "easier" to aim with a mouse in keyboard, in the sense where you have more fluid control over your entire wrist/arm movement than trying to replicate the same movements with your bent thumb. It's actually very difficult to aim using a controller, however, game designers add a bunch of "crutches" to the aiming mechanics to help make it feel fluid and responsive. These mechanics help make up for sloppy aim, which we all would have without it, especially shamass.

These mechanics, such as Auto Aim, Bullet Magnetism and Aim Assist, allow players to start on an equal playing field. Lately, it's been getting worse and designers are starting to randomize weapon mechanics, such as adding spread to the weapons, or bloom. Even other mechanics that are uncontrollable such as recoil or flinching end up hindering competitive play.

So whats left to talk about really? Well for console gaming, it's the past. The future's pretty much dead in terms of competitive FPS. Even PC's finest games are pretty old.

Twitch aiming was big in arena style games like quake and unreal, it required fast movements, complex meta (such as weapon timing, jump tactics such as rocket jumping and wall bouncing, map knowledge, and spawn knowledge) Now while those games helped to lead the way with PC, we had one of the best (based on nostalgia) FPS games of all time, GoldenEye + Perfect Dark. It was a slowed down, clunky area FPS built for an awkward controller.

CONSOLE (HALO CE) FANBOYSIM PART

Console really didn't get a proper twitch shooter until Halo CE came out. It's arguably one of the most in depth and competitive FPS games ever made for a console. Having played both Halo CE and Shadowrun, I would probably lean toward Halo CE. Despite how many people played their share of Halo (2,3,Reach,4) none of their experiences can prepare you for a game of competitive Halo CE. Literally.

Halo CE was as close to a perfect balance FPS game on console as it gets. It was one of the very few games that decided to put at least some emphasis on an aiming skill gap, not to mention the complexities and deep meta game. For example, the sandbox was balanced the best out of the series, with each weapon serving a specific niche roll and having the ability to excel specifically in that roll. As stupid as it sounds, a good player could dominate a player who just picked up OS with a plasa rifle alone. (Only game in the series where the plasa rifle slows you)

The games mechanics however, may not have been implemented in another competitive FPS since. I know Sniper Elite V2 accounts for leading and bullet drop, but I've never looked into the code of the game or read up on it's mechanics.

Halo CE however uses projectile based weapons instead of hitscan which has been popular ever since xbox live came out. Hitscan = bullet registers where you aim instantly. Projectile based = You need to account for the distance the bullet has to travel by aiming ahead of a player.(based on distance and lag) It's pistol has a kill an optimal kill time of 0.6 seconds, which means you can take out a player with full overshields in 1.8. In comparison to Halo 4 which the DMR has roughly a 1.4 or 1.6 kill time. Why did I include this? Because Halo 4 is ******* terrible.

The aiming skill gap was the just the icing on the cake though. The game itself was so deep that knowledgeable players could completely outplay players who had amazing shots. While the game had an easy to figure out spawn system (proximity spawns to teammates) the game had randomly coded locations that were essentially no spawn zones, figured out by competitive players in order to force their teammates into a "random spawn". This would basically spawn your teammate on the otherside of the map in behind the enemy team. These were eventually mapped out on imgur and it's pretty difficult to decipher them, but it's an essential aspect to the game. There's basically no way to learn the system on your own, unless you get lucky and happen to find 1 random spawn on by yourself.

Besides a one of a kind spawn system, the game's weapon system was pretty unique. Weapons were spawned on static timers, which meant no matter what variables happened, power weapons spawned on a consistent timer. Sounds like it makes the most sense, but as far as I know, they fucked up on the rest of the titles. Halo 2 weapons didn't reset the timer until the weapon was dropped, and Halo 3 had sorta dynamic spawns, but could also be "dirtied" to throw off the flow of the weapon times.

While it seems more beneficial to complicate power weapons in order to reward a thinking team, Halo CE worked so well because the grenade physics in the game allowed weapons to be grenaded to players throughout the map. For example, on Hang Em High, I could grenade the sniper and rockets to myself from any corner of the map. I can also take down the ovy/camo. These nade points can be done on any map, and are essential to not getting dominated. Probably the best part of this system, is that there is no in game clock to help assist you in knowing weapon times. People even went through the lengths to make apps for Halo CE timers. I have nostalgic moments of going to NJHalo's for Halo CE, showing up all bright eyed and bushy tailed only to get absolutely ******* raped by some kid with 5 kitchen timers taped to his TV. It was at that point I realized that this game was way more complex than what I saw at the surface, and if I wanted to be the best, I needed to know everything possible about the game.

It's probably the only time I felt that way about a video game unfortunately. Halo 2 was close, but maybe only 25% as complex and deep as Halo CE.

Now the point of that was just to describe a bit of competitive Halo CE, as most people discredit console FPS as competitive, especially the PC Master race. The fact of the matter is Halo CE had tons of amazing plays and twitch like snipes just like that quake video, but the game has been slowed down for console. It's also hard to appreciate what you can't understand, which is why Halo 3 and beyond players claim Halo CE looks boring. It's because they don't realize how hard the pistol was to shoot.


Also for the record, PC would absolutely rape Console on shadowrun. I've asked the community about that a couple times and everyone's pretty much in the same boat.

I wish there were more Arena shooters

For the record, I f*cking loved Halo CE.
It needed LIVE on console though, or the Anniversary edition to have the same original game's multiplayer on LIVE. The PC version has such bad netcode.

kvalheim, have you heard about xbox connect? It was around before xbox live, and was essentially a LAN tunnel system for original xbox games.

Idk if you followed the G4 Nationals, the Halo 50k's or any of the regional MLGs, but the game has evolved past that point. It's claimed that the Ogre twins are the best duo in the games history, but there are a couple people out there who I think have the chance to beat them.

I consider myself decent. I only say that because despite me knowing a lot more than the majority of those who have played, I still find myself at both ends of the spectrum. I've absolutely destroyed players off host 50-10, but at the same time I've gotten raped 50-7 on my own host! That's absolutely embarrassing, but for the record, it was against Patch and Shade... <--- those are two of maybe 4 current day Halo CE players who have a shot at beating the ogres.


The PC version had a bad netcode because the netcode was never intended for online play. Not only that, but the PC version implemented bloom on the pistol, I'm guessing as nerf for PC players since it's easier to aim on a mouse and keyboard. (same reason theres RIDICULOUS bloom on your reticule while running in shadowrun) That's one of the reasons Halo 2 switched to hitscan weapons, was for the reliability in gameplay. Halo CE, was tricky because everything you did was delayed on your screen depending on the host connection. I believe this excludes various animations such as walking, reloading, turning etc. Everything else though however includes information that the host has to accept, then relay back to you that it's accepted it. Depending on how far away they are, it could take up to a full second. Essentially, you tell the host where and when you are firing a bullet, and those packets are sent to the host who analyzes it, reads the info and deems whether the shot hits or misses, then sends the information back to you, all before you either see the hit on his shields, or a miss. In that time, the host is sending it's own packets to you regarding his movement on the map, in which you need to compensate the time it takes for your bullet (information packet) to reach the area where the host will be if he was to continue walking. <-- is that complicated? Good. It should be. I think if you take the time to study a game, you should be rewarded.

Headshot incentives, and a difficult aiming system help create an aiming skill gap in that game, something of which can't be said for the rest of the series. Halo 2 had a slight skill gap despite the having the most magnetism in the series, but that was due to tight strafe response and movement acceleration.

Halo 2 also had implemented a "guess" based system for lag. The game takes the information from the player's movements, and takes an estimated guess on where the next step will be, in order to allow consistent gameplays across all screens. Obviously host will come into play here, but it's their way of lag compensation. That combined with heavy magnetism, and a tight spread on the BR allowed for a consistent weapon all ranges except the BTB maps.

If you have ever been standbyed in Halo 2 (blacksreen) you'll sometimes notice the players end up running into a wall or continue moving on your screen. That's the clearest and most obvious example of this game taking estimated guesses at where they player will move next based on current and previous movements he's made. Just another example of a crutch for gameplay, but in the long run ended up working out as a form of lag compensation.


I doubt many people will read the two posts, but I'm a bit of a geek when it comes to Halo CE and game mechanics. There's a dude who knows more about Halo CE than ANYBODY! I'd even put money that this single dude knows more alone than the rest of the halo community combined. He's got a Halo CE "test" he sent me and I failed miserably. Only one person passed with a 60 (D-) and he's one of the few people to make Halo 1.5, a version edited with new competitive maps (some better than on disc maps). He's coming out with a 40 page manuscript detailing Halo CE. I don't know what to expect, but he constantly drops tidbits of information that nobodies ever heard of before.

For example, did you know that there are hippos in one way shape or form in the first 3 titles of the game? Don't believe me? Type Halo CE hippo or something into Google. I used to pride myself with all the Easter Egg's ive found in video games. I haven't heard of this one till a couple months ago. Also, it's written into the code for CTF multiplayer that the game keeps track of the amount of flag steals and defends you have, but doesn't show it on the post game stats. It still accounts for them in real time, but there is no way of seeing it.

I did not. I was only like 9 or 10 by the time I got Halo: CE, and never played against anyone except my brother or cousin. Didn't even get LIVE until Halo 2 and we moved a month after, so we lost it nearly as soon as we got it.
Played enough Halo 2 on 360 to warrant a compensation reward when they took the servers down tho

Halo CE was a great game. That's what caught my attention days ago when some PC shmuck said something like "lemme guess you think halo is a good shooter too."

Halo basically made Xbox what it is

Newer Halo games feel a bit lackluster. From about 3 onwards I'd just beat the campaign in a day, spend a couple of weeks playing MP and get bored because of how easy it was.
And again I think that was pill or tasker or someone; one of those people who think every game that isn't Quake is bad.

Has a point doe, Halo is pretty terrible.

Quake Live has something similar. It's a horrible feature. Any spawn system that isn't random can be controlled and therefore abused to force your opponent in horrible positions and spawn kill him over and over again. Mind you, I got no problem with spawn killing - dying is losing an engagement and losing should be punished - but I do like it when a fresh spawn at least has a chance. The only way to do that is by implementing pure random spawns.

1. That gaiia clip wasn't all that impressive, it was just the first thing that popped into my head when I thought about an example of easy to follow twitch aim. I've had similar moments and I'm at the absolute bottom of Quake 3 CPMA. I could've linked HAL_9000 doing his thing (4 perfect 90 degrees turns in less than a second, for instance) but that would pretty much be impossible to follow for the untrained eye.
2. The entire point of comp fps is speed. Otherwise it would be easy and boring.

But I'll admit I'm extremely biased when it comes to console vs pc.

Also Tasker, grimbar and I dislike Halo because it started the casualization, together with some other games (coughCOUNTERSTRIKEcough). It isn't a hard game. No, it really really isn't.

I'd never group all the halo's in the series as "Halo"

Halo CE,

Halo 2 + 3

Halo Reach + 4

I'll admit 2 was great and fun, so was 3, but neither were as competitive as Halo CE.

Do you think Halo CE was terrible from a competitive perspective? Maybe you don't agree with the slowed down format, or maybe you played with PC, but Halo CE is probably the most competitive FPS title to ever touch an xbox.

Again, with grimbar. Are you saying Halo CE isn't a hard game? Or are you saying some of the later titles aren't competitive? I agree that the others aren't competitive.

However, if you guys really don't think it's competitive. Download XBC and i'll pay give anyone $50 bucks each if they can break 10 kills on patch + shade, or patch and a partner of his choosing. I'll give you $100 if you can break 25 kills on him.

*disclaimer* if you're halfway across the world I might back out of this bet.

You know what I like about you Teapot? You are good but don't hype yourself too much, and you recognize the good players and can say "yeah that person is good and probably better than me" and not feel all threatened and insecure.

I do think that Halo CE was terrible, and I do think that because it's not Quake. I also think that no other videogame ever came close to the perfection that is CPMA except for maybe Brood War

I think that's a really sad attitude.
I'd hate to have ONE game I thought was good and think absolutely everything else was terrible.
I'm also willing to bet someone who wasn't a Quake fan could come up with flaws for CPMA after playing.