Re: "the gimmicky laser moon"

see this is where you start sratching the root of the problem.

I LOVE metal planets. And.... that so called "king of the hill" mode can hardly be called one. It would if there were any depth.

But as I've illustrated time and time again: there is none. it's all decided in the first few minutes of the game, if not by the spawn points alone.

how is that interesting?

You'll play out a 30 minute match where you knew at the 10 minute mark with absolute certainty that you couldn't get the metal planet back or stop your impending doom and just watch them build their catcaclysts for the rest of the game? (honestly shoot your best counter, and I'll go ahead and tell you why I could finish catas before)

you sure like being a good guy greg don't you?

I'd rather system including metal planets have actual depth.

It's a little disappointing. Uber are free to do what they want with the game, but I for one won't be using these metal planets. Really could do with an option to disable catalysts, missing out on metal planet rotations is wounding.

It does kinda feel like a new game mode though, unofficially the "Rush mode." I'm not all that keen on being rushed about to be fair.

I think the anihilaser is awsome, it just give you another option, and this is what I want from this game...
options do I go for the teleporter rush, or make a play for a small moon smash, do i turtle up and stockpile nukes ect..

More options help keep the game interesting, as long as there well balenced....

I dunno you guys, laser balance aside, it sounds more like the problem is more about how invading is hard to do rather then the catalyst is inherently unbalanced.

Sure, id rather make constructing them take time, so 50 T2 fabbers cant insta build the things or what not.

But really this still seems to stem from the fact that once someone dominates a planet, you can't undo that.

Actually it takes away options too, like I said, because it is present I can't use my favorite planet type anymore unless I'm playing with friends under the honor code.

At this point, it's not a "Game Mode" it's something that's specifically been designed to actually Reliably End the Game and in doing it has actually gone beyond most things labeled as "Game Enders". Most of the time these "Game Enders" are just things with the potential to end the game, making them execution dependent.

Sure the Mavor from SupCom CAN end the game by attacking the ACU, but what if you never let it fire at the Commander? Simply having the Mavor isn't enough, you still need to use it correctly. Execution isn't nearly as much of a factor with the Annihi-laser because even if you leave planets with commanders on them till last, you're still doing MASSIVE damage to thier economy and other infrastructure AND because the cycle rate on the damn thing is only 17-18 seconds. There is literally NO downside to the Annihi-laser once it's fired it's first shot unless you specifically fired at one of your own planets and even then, as long as you keep firing, it won't matter.

This is correct to a point, but we've spent a lot of time already discussing Interplanetary Mechanics and at the end of the day, it'd still be a shallow and binary mechanic even with "better" Interplanetary Mechanics.

Mike

nope.

you don't wanna touch the laser?

fine.

what are you going to do?

make orbital units wizz around the system like little flash gordons? Still not quick enough!

ok then orbital get from one planet to another instantaneously. A little better but you just dumped a huge bunch of the orbital mechanic in the bin. but then that means King of the hill-ers are just going to change their build to build anti-nuke and orbital barrage sooner.

whatever we do seems like the problem just keeps coming back.

oh! oh! oh! I got one! make hailleys build much much faster, ok now seems more like a fair fight, but then again you've basically ruined the depth of orbital, halleys AND metal planets altogether and shortened the length of any game containing KEWs to mere minutes.


SO how much longer are we going to keep dancing around the pot?

one day you gotta stop making pretend and address the problem however much of a sacred cow it be..

I have yet to play a system with a metal planet, (I've avoided it due to not liking what I read about how fast it could fire) but what if when designing a system, you set the metal sliders to 0 so the metal planet has no metal spots. Then simply rushing to the metal planet and building a laser won't work because you won't have the eco to support it. (I assume that the catalysts are expensive) Instead you'd have to hold a planet to provide the eco and the metal planet to fire the laser.

I'm just asking questions dude, I am more then willing to et you and the others hammer our a better laser, I am just thinking of the other side of the problem here.

+1

At the moment, metal planets warp the game from "control planets, and kill enemies" to "control metal planet and later we can kill enemies". That's not to say they are unstoppable, and halley to the face neutralises them. They just kill other planets way to quickly.

Interestingly, the Team burning clan wars system has exactly this planet A metal plant with 0 metal spots. It means there is no other reason to be there really (although a hidden nuke base near the south pole could be an idea ).

I've played lots of games with metal planets and it really isn't OP. They take *a lot* of resources to activate and everyone can see the catalysts so they are like nuke magnets. You can only really use one if you get waaay ahead of your opponent, however it does make for a pretty spectacular finale if your in the position to do so

I know man. I just love to answer questions. And considering Uber's response to this is currently: we might give this thread a pitty-read .....might, but most certainly not act upon it, I think there's no leeway for doubt amongst any member of the community.

I agree, providing more options to interplanetary gameplay will solve many concerns.

In my opinion, it makes it more epic when it naturally comes about in a game. Also, if you are like me and just play against the AI, I do not go straight for the kill in an RTS. Most of the time I will corner the AI and finish them off in an usual/cool way. Like in Red Alert 2, I must have won that game in every possible way (even with dogs ... lol j/k )

I disagree. Increases the novelty when it does appear. The tension of trying to build/stop something like this was great in SupCom. One appearing as a surprise even better.

Do you see this as effective communication? Because it's not. Your just taking a normal healthy discussion and elevating it into am uninformative flame war. You also totally misrepresented my opinion. The point isn't that its easy to stop the laser firing repeatedly. The point is that (I believe) the laser is best used as a decisive game ender. The time to intervene is in the 20 minutes before the laser is built, not after, unless you get hella lucky. This keeps games short am exciting, and can always be easily nodded with a longer cooldown for those who prefer it.

Going on a flame bait campaign, yelling nonsense at people having an opinion you disagree with, is 90% of the problem in this community. If you want me to continue this discussion then I suggest you use your words and communicate like an adult with half a brain.

I wish the mods would come down hard on this method of balance discussion because it's really counter productive.

+1 philo, If you really don't like the awsomnes of the anihilaser, don't put a metal planet in.
pretty simple....

What if we like the Awesomeness of the Metal Planet Terrain instead of the Laser? I mean sure the honor system works for friends and what not but it's not always an option.

Mike

I was playing on a *damage* metal planet with no anniilasor spots the other day.... I think that was using a mod though I'm not sure...

still hopefully they will put a set of switches in the lobby so if you don't like nukes or anihilaser's you can just turn them of for your game..

like in supcom.

btw hope I haven't cofused any one in my previos posts... When i say Sc im refering to sup com,, not starcraft. Just realised the other day.
oops

I do this already, but I'd vastly prefer a balanced metal planet.

Without a mod, with a bit of fiddling you might be able to spawn a moon at the start of the matcht o smash the lazer.