You guys should spice up bot buying.

Discussion in 'Monday Night Combat PC Wishlist' started by Goose, January 12, 2011.

  1. Goose

    Goose Active Member

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    The concept just seems a bit bland to me. Only 2 of the bots are really very useful (gapshots, gremlins). Bouncers aren't that amazing because it only takes one grapple most of the time and it is shared by two classes. That is is the biggest thing that bugs me, both tanks and gunners have Bouncers and it fits much better with the tank then the Gunner. I think it would be pretty cool to give him a new one.

    Just to make it a bit more interesting and intuitive, maybe you should be able to upgrade bots like you do turrets. It seems to me that there isn't much thought process in buying bots really and some bots give you huge reward without really putting in the effort. Have the starting bot at 100, then its another 100 to upgrade, then 200 to upgrade again. Thing is, idk how you would upgrade a buzzer...maybe you can choose the level when you buy it?

    Nerf Gapshots...I play support 90% of the time but i'm not going to lie and say they are balanced. They are 100x more useful than the other bots. That would justify my ideas to make them more useful at higher levels and nerfing their base stats.

    Maybe having more control of the bots you buy? This way it doesn't seem like you buy it and just cast it out into the world. I'm not quite sure how this can be implemented but it would be pretty cool to be able to choose which turret a gapshot will shoot at or where a buzzer swarm will go. :)
  2. spirit

    spirit New Member

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    Some good points, I'd like to add one thing.

    In most of the games I've played, I rarely see someone buying bots. Even when they're facing a team that is using them very well, most just skip buying bots. I don't know if they're just not obvious that you can buy them, or if their buying points are too out of the way on some maps, but some way to further encourage players to buy bots would be nice.
  3. BulletMagnet

    BulletMagnet Post Master General

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    I've surprised people with a Bouncer rush as Tank. The Bouncer can distract an opposing Pro well enough for a Tank to push ahead and clear a lane.

    Bouncers verses multiple Pros is just wasted money, however.
  4. Hildogen

    Hildogen New Member

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    I strongly agree. When the enemy team spawns special bots at me think of it as a present. They are wasting cash, and I'm getting easy money. Granted, every so often bots I've spawned have gotten me an assist (never a kill), but overall I just find it better to save money for juice, turrets, and annihilator.

    I personally don't think bots should be limited to class. There are a couple times I killed myself just so I could respawn to spawn some gapshots then switch back. I think I understand the reason as to why they are bound to a class, but I would personally prefer if I could choose. I like the idea of being able to choose what bot a spawn, but maybe one will be cheaper based on my class so I have more of an incentive to pick that one.
  5. BulletMagnet

    BulletMagnet Post Master General

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    The problem is that people would spawn nothing but Scramblers and Gapshots.
  6. Hildogen

    Hildogen New Member

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    Well, that is another problem. Some bots are signifigantly better than others.
  7. Goose

    Goose Active Member

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    It's true. spawning gapshots makes buying and upgrading longshot turrets completely worthless assuming they won't die right out of the spawn. And gremlins are really nothing more than an annoyance when being massed. I like massing grems though because I just really enjoy watching supports and assaults struggling with them. As far as usefulness goes,

    1.Gapshots <3
    2. Gremlins
    3. Scramblers
    4. Bouncers
    5. Buzzers because they always get caught on stuff and really don't do much.
  8. Providence

    Providence New Member

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    Each class should have an option of at least 2 different bots.
  9. Mibuwolf

    Mibuwolf New Member

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    Then it would defeat the purpose for some bots to even exist; which is actually what we're discussing.

    As it is, bots are probably low on my "things to spend on" list. If I want to have fun with gapshots, then I'll use them, otherwise I wouldn't bother.
  10. Goose

    Goose Active Member

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    Well gapshots are actually useful outside of them being fun to mass. Its the other bots that are just fun.
  11. Providence

    Providence New Member

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    I meant 2 unique bots each class so 6-7 new bots.
  12. Goose

    Goose Active Member

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    I love the idea of new content but it would probably make the bot balance even worse.
  13. BulletMagnet

    BulletMagnet Post Master General

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    Then what roles would these bots take?
  14. Providence

    Providence New Member

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    Each class would have one bot designed for pushing bots and taking out turrets while the other specializing in disabling or killing players.
  15. BulletMagnet

    BulletMagnet Post Master General

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    That makes a fair bit of sense. Not sure if you could make that many bots for pushing lanes, but it's a nice idea.
  16. Hildogen

    Hildogen New Member

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    There's already bots that fit those roles. Like I said the bots are class specific and I think allowing any class to choose any bot would greatly lighten (but not nessecarily fix) the issue. There's no reason to create more of the same bots just for the sake of having more.
  17. WhiteHawke

    WhiteHawke New Member

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    Because of easier aiming on pc it's not nearly as much of an issue to just turn and shoot a bot and then go right back to shooting something else. We can switch targets far easier with a mouse. Bots need to be better on the pc to overcome this. Id say start with small changes like the following suggestions. Bouncers need to be slightly faster (15%?) and it seems like their grabs might have a cooldown that is more than 2 seconds. This should be shortened. Buzzers only live for 20 seconds. Make them 15% faster and increase their life by 10 seconds. They also seem to get "caught" on geometry a lot. This should be looked into. Scramblers need to double their melee damage output and need at least 20% more speed. Gapshots are pretty good, but they die so fast its actually silly. If their health was increased by 25% it couldn't hurt. Gremlins are almost okay too, but I'd say give them 10% more speed and they'll be just about right.

    Currently I would never waste money on the bots when juice or turret upgrades or the annihilator or skills are an option. If none of these are available options, I would save the money for when one becomes an option instead of using it on bots. That's how poor of a choice I think they are right now. They are a really neat gimmick/almost choice (on pc only mind you) that is just waiting to become a valid choice. Make it happen devs!
  18. Goose

    Goose Active Member

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    Sorry but that logic is severely flawed. There is nothing to compensate for the better aiming on PC as the effect it has is minimal to none.
  19. MikeyTWolf

    MikeyTWolf New Member

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    All of them would make them more lethal to attacking teams, which is compensation right there.

    Buzzers seriously need better pathfinding and gremlins need to run faster to make up for the fact they're weaker, since their cloak stops them form being sniped except by rail, since they're all wiped in one big death blossom instantly, even faster than buzzers who spread out.

    I always thought there must be something up with bouncers, because they chase pros all day long but do NOTHING in the end before dying from a single grapple after a bit of gunfire. They dont even seem to connect a melee hit let alone their grapple even if they get close to a heavy class or someone that lacks mobility because even the slightest movement would take them out of range. I think a minor increase to his grapple/punch range would be suitable so that they can at least dish out minor damage to or make heavier classes have more reason to run.

    Also, perhaps you could make the tank have bouncer, give Gunner gapshot (relates to his mortar?) and give support a new bot that acts like a pet: Spawn it and it'll lovingly follow you around, constantly healing you to max health at a slow rate (half default regen rate perhaps?) at about the same speed as a scrambler maybe. Following design options include:

    - Healing all friendly pros in range at a slow rate
    - "Use" makes it follow the person who "used" it last
    - Alternative: Piggyback? On "use" it'll move behind the person who used it, effectively using them as a meatshield (provided they don't run away too fast/far) and will heal everyone (else?) when in range, receives slight damage reduction based on it's owner's max health (so tanks would provide better protection for them)?
    - Has a cute face, makes cute sounds.
    - If balance permits, inflicts hurt beam on targets that get too close (anywhere between one to a max of six) but does not leech health for itself or anyone else.
    - Possible balance: If following/piggybacked, target cannot be overhealed, or cannot be targeted by friendly supports.
  20. WhiteHawke

    WhiteHawke New Member

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    Are you honestly going to argue that mice cannot acquire a target with considerably more accuracy and speed than a controller? This is like arguing that gravity does not exist. Its just that silly.

    The devs already share my opinion about it, so what do you think they'll make of your argument?

    Scathis: "I do agree playing a shooter on PC is a better experience, the controller just doesn't hold up to a mouse and keyboard."

    viewtopic.php?f=2&t=460&p=2216&hilit=controller#p2216

    Ekanaut: "This is a PC specific change due to much greater air control and accuracy with mouse and keyboard."

    viewtopic.php?f=30&t=6050&p=76864&hilit=Mouse#p76864

    The fact of the matter is that we can aim more quickly while retaining accuracy and still have better accuracy than a controller. Notice how we dont have aim assist in this version? If this isnt understood at this point...

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