Why was push class removed?

Discussion in 'PA: TITANS: General Discussion' started by Killerkiwijuice, September 6, 2015.

  1. Killerkiwijuice

    Killerkiwijuice Post Master General

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    It's extremely annoying infuriating when an army gets stuck in a choke point and has to be deleted because the units are "sticking" to each other.

    10/10.
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  2. violetania

    violetania Well-Known Member

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    i think it's also kinda useful like speeding up units???? but yea when the commanders trying to run away and your units are pushing it towards the attackers it's awful!
    feelsbadman ;P
  3. HotshotDemon

    HotshotDemon New Member

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    That happend to me like 3 or 4 times. i survived by microing hard but then rage quit anyway.
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  4. rivii

    rivii Well-Known Member

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    But Manhattan-dox/boombot pushing is Sooooo Cool!! :D
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  5. Killerkiwijuice

    Killerkiwijuice Post Master General

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    Well that doesn't have to be changed. Most things, however, need to have the push_class flag added back to them.
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  6. davostheblack

    davostheblack Well-Known Member

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    wacthing a commander getting shuffled past the walls into No Mans Land is very gratifying if it's happening to someone else, not so much when it's your com
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  7. crizmess

    crizmess Well-Known Member

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    From what I can see, I think they replaced a lot in the path finding. Here is what I've seen so far:
    (Note, I use dox and fabbers here as an example, because I know how they interacted pre-Titans)

    * Dynamic push class. Pre-Titans dox had a lower push class then fabbers. You could move a fabber through a dox army to build a mex, but it was near impossible for a dox to move through a horde of fabbers to get to its target. Now, post-Titans, any unit that has a move order has a higher push class than a idle unit, this means regardless of unit type you can always push standing units away to get to your target.
    * Cost stamps. Pre-Titans, if you had a army of dox and a single fabber with an order from one side of this blob to the other, the fabber would have gone straight through that blob. Post-Titans units avoid actively each other, you will see how that fabber goes around that dox blob. Which is great because it avoids unit collisions in the first place.

    This is definitely better, then what we had in pre-Titans. On the other side it may need some additional tweaking until it works comfortably for everyone.
    So I would recommend something like this:
    * The push class of the commander should always be higher than any unit. It is the most important unit after all.
    * The push class of an assisting unit should not be higher then the unit it assists to. This will avoid the pushing around of idle assisted units.
    * Cost stamps of idling units should be lower then moving units. If a unit has a choice moving through standing units should be preferred over moving into something that might be moving in the opposite direction to you. Ideally this will get weighted by the movement vector of both units, so that a unit prefers to move along a path where units move the same direction and avoids places where units move the opposite direction. (Forget the last sentence. Looking at the picture, it seems like this is already implemented in the local movement controller)
    * Maybe: Attacking units should have a lower push class then moving units. This is a bit tricky since there is no clear definition of attacking - basically you can move an army and it will attack your opponent. So simply looking after an attack order isn't sufficient. The idea behind this is that evacuating fabbers from a base under attack would be more important than attacking the opponent.

    But all this might not be as easy as it looks, since push class is a priority it also means it is a partially ordered set. So every rule that gets added needs to be reflexive, antisymmetric, and transitive to all the other existing rules - which sometimes might not be possible.

    Also, this is impressive:
    Dynamically building of stable lanes in crowds (dox move right to left, fabbers (selected) move left to right)
    clash.png
  8. mot9001

    mot9001 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah i find more stuck units now then before titans. Also, pushing things over their normal movementspeed cap is kinda op.
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  9. wondible

    wondible Post Master General

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    I just saw a retreating AI commander on 0% health (100% wreckage in hover) get pushed back to his death by the unit blob coming to save him ;^)
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  10. philoscience

    philoscience Post Master General

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    I think overall pathing and pushing has been improved. There are a few sore spots where it doesn't do so good however. For example trying to path a manhattan through a tight or crowded area is a nightmare. I had to pull all my units back and destroy any buildings in the way. Titans are the same. The problem seems to get even worse if pathing over a ramp. Some titans like the stompy one will do many, many 180 degree turns seemingly for no reason.
  11. Alpha2546

    Alpha2546 Post Master General

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    I'm pretty sure that I screamed nooooooo when I noticed that my commander was getting pushed back into the battlefield by the tanks that were supposed to save him.

    Such a painful moment.
  12. devoh

    devoh Well-Known Member

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    I was cursing like a drunken sailor last night when my commander was in retreat only to get pushed into the oncoming enemy mob by his own units trying to save him... ARGHHHHHHHH!!
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  13. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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  14. Killerkiwijuice

    Killerkiwijuice Post Master General

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  15. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

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    Well, to be fair the manhattan push works both ways. You can push the enemy manhattan back towards the enemy KappaHD.

    But yea, pushclass needs to be added back. Pushing commander to 20 speed shouldn't be a legit strategy.
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  16. mot9001

    mot9001 Well-Known Member

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    I have to say i was kinda liking the Usain Bolt strats :p
  17. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

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    Good times :p
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  18. devoh

    devoh Well-Known Member

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    It was the first time I wished friendly fire was turned on so I could Uber Cannon my own units to get the frack out of there..
  19. devoh

    devoh Well-Known Member

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    IMHO Commanders should be able to walk right through it's own units like we can with wreckage. Like they are not even there.
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  20. ljfed

    ljfed Active Member

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    EVERY single time i'm in a com-boxing situation and get my units to assist my commander as it builds walls (or in general) I end up with no walls and a commander in the middle of nowhere
    10/10 will lose again --plz fix

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