Why the Sniper doesn't work in MNC (PC)

Before I get started, these comments are reserved for the PC version of MNC. Never played the XBOX version, so I don't know if this applies.

The Sniper does not work in Monday Night Combat. It doesn't fit the game and it breaks the gameplay. Here's why:

1) Implementation-- The Sniper was implemented poorly in MNC. A mainstay of sniping classes in virtually very FPS is sway/breathing. It's never simply point-and-click. But in MNC, it is -- point-and-click for instant kills. Bad decisions.

2) No Natural Counters -- The Sniper doesn't really have any hard-counters, except for other Snipers. Assaults can harass Snipers to a degree, but it will generally mean that Assault is dedicated to nothing else except targeting that Sniper. And the Sniper can easily retreat, especially since their unmatched range allows them to hang in their own spawn, utilizing the defenses of their turrets and spawning teammates. That's right -- a Sniper can completely harass your team without ever leaving his spawn.

3) Snipers are counter-intuitive to MNC gameplay -- In my opinion, this is the biggest reason that Snipers don't work in MNC. I don't think I've ever played any FPS that rewards aggression quite like MNC does. The whole point is to constantly advance. Yet the Sniper completely flies opposite of that. Fighting against a sniper makes aggression a liability. A single sniper can completely lock down a side of the map and punish you for being aggressive. For a game that is constantly encouraging you to be aggressive, it makes no sense to have a class that completely neutralizes and punishes aggression. None of the other classes in MNC punish aggression as badly as the Sniper. Also, there's no class in MNC that so completely changes the dynamic of a game simply by their mere presence. Whenever an opponent is playing a Sniper, it completely alters the way I play. On Ammo Mule, for instance, if theres a Sniper, I have to constantly watch where he is, and then completely avoid that side of the map. It doesnt even have to be a good Sniper, because all it takes is one lucky shot.

Its not so much that Snipers are overpowered its simply that they dont work in MNC. Itd be like taking the Pyro from TF2 and putting him in COD4. The Pyro isnt overpowered in TF2, but it would completely wreck the gameplay of COD4. Thats what the Sniper does in MNC. It was implemented poorly to begin with, it has no natural counters and it runs completely opposite to all the axioms of MNC.

Sniper is fun. I like my double Grapples. why use the sniper rifle?

I think Sunny Dove said it best in one of his vids once:
A Sniper takes your skills out of the equation. All that matters is how good he can click on your face.

Unless you completely alter your playing style, keep tabs on him for the entire time and play like a sissy. Which is incredibly annoying and boring.

Thank you for creating a new thread for this.

I agree with points 2 and 3 but not necessarily with one.

Yeah, noticed that afterwards. That's what I get for jumping on and immediately posting.

I believe that Sniper should be changed to make other players modify their style, similar to how the Assassin does so, but not to the extent it allows currently, IE, stay out of sight at all costs.

Does anyone remember the sniper rifle in, say, UT2004? This is that in a different game and with reloading + different headshot rules. Virtually every "modern warfare/pseudorealistic" FPS has implemented sway/breathing, and this is not one of those.

EDIT:

Assault: Lob grenades/toss a bomb near the sniper.
Assassin: Shuriken spam/lunge through traps.
Gunner: Mortar spam.
Sniper: Forget about everyone else and spam bullets around his head until one of you dies, then go back to killing everyone else for 8 seconds.
Support: Airstrike/Shotgun if he's not paying attention.
Tank: Only real counter is to get in close where the sniper is weaker and use some finesse.

Heavies have the most difficulty countering him, of course, but a good gunner can spam mortars right at your feet for rapetastic damage. Assault can use the terrain to lob a bomb over the edge of a platform and detonate it on your nose. Assassins can lunge past your traps and grapple fairly well if they're experienced (if the difference in player skill is making it difficult for him to do that, then the class isn't the problem).

tl:dr; Yes, you can counter the sniper.

and also doesnt help your team.

And could be near impossible if the sniper has another good sniper covering his back or any other teammate covering him.

@Lyrae

Assault: Has a good chance with golf RoF grenade launcher if you are good with it. They still have plenty of time to react to the grenades though since it does generally take 3 hits. Getting close enough to bomb a sniper is usually a mistake on the sniper's part. I have a great bomb throw but I literally can't get a bomb to a sniper cowering in the back of the map. I can get aggressive snipers but if they play super conservatively, it's not easy to get a bomb to them. My only other options are bomb jump to them or completely avoid their line of sight. A good sniper will just quickscope me before I can kill them with my AR after the bomb jump.

Assassin: Landing many shuriken on the sniper will require you to stand still. Aka: get your head clicked on. Lunging through traps is nice though. I'd prefer my assassin not try to engage the sniper unless they are guaranteed the kill. Just go kill the bots like you're supposed to and run around the level below sniper with your cloak on to keep them distracted / shifting their eyes around for you rather than sniping the other team.

Gunner: Mortars are great because they can do some serious damage and you can arc them over walls so you're fairly safe. I've only seen maybe 1-2 gunners that have epic mortar placement though. And the best one I knew quit. Anyway, my point is you won't find many gunners who can actually hit snipers with mortars from under cover at long ranges.

Sniper: Let's just hope your sniper is better than the other team's.

Support: Airstrike across the map. He'll hear it and just move. Shotgun? Lol. Good luck at getting close. Support is horrible at avoiding or removing ice traps too. I guess you'll waste all your airstrikes taking them out?

Tank: Tank usually can't kill a sniper but if you have a good rail gun shot, you can harass them a little without too much worry (especially since you can survive a headshot with Silver Armor + Passive 3 or Gold Armor + Passive 2). I get right-hand advantage, poke my rail gun around the wall, quickly pot shot them once, and go back behind the wall. Rinse and repeat until you get them one shot away from death and they go back behind cover. You will likely not kill them but you can keep them distracted. Kind of a waste of time. The rail gun is mostly for suppression and cleaning up kills. If the sniper is in a position where you can charge jump to them, you can get them. But snipers are usually not going to stand where a tank can just swoop in on them like a bearded meteor as they say.

Oh yeah. And all of this is assuming the other team isn't taking advantage of the fact your team can't push forward because there is a competent sniper locking down their side of the map. In reality, you often can't do much of anything against the sniper because he uses his team as a shield (as he should).

tl:dr; No. Just no.

And constantly looking at your bots because an annoying assassin keeps going invis and killing them isn't boring?

Assults spamming nades at bots and you from a mile away isn't annoying?

Face it guys, sniper is a good deciding factor and what he does when he "changes your playstyle" is he makes it so you actually have to be careful and THINK. I know, I know, it's funning recklessly running in and killing everybody but I like to keep those guys in line.

Assaults using grenades or sins killing bots are two completely different scenarios from sniper. Assassin has to actually be on your side of the map to slice through bots. That is high risk, high reward. If your team doesn't protect your bot spawn, you can expect the sin to have constant juice and all of your turrets to disappear but that's your team's fault for not preventing it. Assault has limited range with his grenade launcher. The nades explode after 1 second of travel time. Even as a light class, you can survive 2 grenades and run away (with gold armor). The nade launcher isn't going to be what's demolishing your team. Looking at my stats, I've got over 10,000 AR kills but only 1,300 GL kills.

Anyway, grenade spam and sins killing your bots may be frustrating if your team isn't stopping it from happening but it's not even close to the same as sniper's potential to whip out OHKO's in rapid succession from unlimited range. Low risk, high reward.

lets not forget lvl 3 passive with the rifle.
headshotting a blackjack will generally take it down in 2-3 shots and the explosions that come from the bullets will take care of the rest. So he can take down bots faster than an assault and almost as fast as a sin.

And the whole fact that he can shoot his own bots to explode his bullets and kill the sin is another joke.

High risk high reward huh? well then, that must mean that sniper is high SKILL high reward.

Amiright?

This is like it for every game, it's the PLAYER that makes sniper OP. No one bitches about the bad snipers.

I bitch about the bad snipers. If you disregard even a lv.0 sniper, he can get you with a lucky headshot. It's so simple: point and click. They deal out deaths that I don't deserve--my skill level was not involved in the slightest in those engagements. High skill, high reward? Why should your skill at clicking on my head at any range and potentially instantaneously (quickscope) completely trump mine in every sense on every other class in the game? That is my question. Other classes may have OHKO's but they are all close range or difficult to pull off consistently.

There is skill involved in sniping, no doubt. If you have a great muscle memory and are comfortable with mouse aiming, you'll be great. The player is what makes sniper absolutely obnoxious but the design of the class doesn't even make sense for MNC in the first place. I'm not going to beat a dead horse here. Everyone else has already said it themselves.

I'll leave you with this: my team has two of the "known" snipers in Draketh and Tiblolan. I've had tons of games playing against Draketh in particular. He pretty well only plays sniper and even he agrees it is out of place and overpowered.

HTRW, am I right with my assumption that you play Sniper almost exclusively?

And of course nobody complains about bad Snipers, nobody complains about a bad player on the other team. That doesn't mean a thing. :roll:

I do. If they are horrible they should get better.

Edit: Didn't see this:

I'm still alive and kickin'.

It's natural to not want your main class to be nerfed. I'd be a bit bummed if they nerfed assault again but I don't really think he needs it. Maybe reduce the ring-out capabilities of the bomb / charge 3 or slightly increase the damage drop off on the AR but that's all I can think of.

Regardless of the labels we place on sniper be it "OP" or "obnoxious" or what have you, he is a primary force that drives players of all skill levels away from MNC. I would rather remove sniper from the game entirely than let MNC die anymore than it already has.

You always have your minigun out and fully rev'd it seems to me :roll:. Back when Dichotomy played, he had some insane long range mortaring going on.

Gamesense9000, go ask Moose for that hack. Assassin seeing skill level 3 is not for sale though.

Mortaring a sniper is most of the time just not worth it in my opinion. Takes way too long and gives him too much time to actually get away. Minigun to the face works fine most of the time though.