Why does the support grapple suck so bad?

I don't understand this. Support can only engage in close combat, but he has the weakest grapple in the game?

It's gotten to the point that as soon as i get close to ANY OTHER CLASS i just get grappled/stomped, which either does massive damage, or throws me across the map. When I do get in close and get a grapple, I just get counter grappled and do about a pixels worth of damage for my efforts. Since every other class takes at least two shotty blasts to kill (not counting assassins or crits) I think my grapple should do more than offer myself up for an easy kill.

That or make the harm beam worth something, so i don't have to be in range of every AOE ever to do damage.

grapple plus shotgun

i happen to like the shotgun grapple. even if it does not kill the target, you are usually within range of your firebase to clean up for you, and even if that is out of range, you set yourself up for some realy easy shotgun blasts as soon as the grapple is finished.

Its the weakest but by far the longest. I like it because my team (destiny) is smart where if i call a grapple they instantly come over and help, also i like it because you can hold juiced players (if u get the grapple) for almost half of their juice. it also throws the person bak just alittle bit so you can jump backwards to shotgun them in the face.

xS m o k 3 z opinion and thats all.

This is all true... one on one you can often get another shotgun shot off.. if they don't immediately spam their charge, grapple or slam... all of which will kill you.

A grapple that lasts longer than most works against you as much as it can for you. if you're grappling a juicer in your base.. sure thats great. If you're grappling a pro pushing a lane, you're dead from the next wave of bots that comes along, often without even killing the pro.

You are using it wrong. If you are going into a fight attempting to grapple someone, you are starting the fight incorrectly. You go in fighting with your shotgun, and you go in trying to get a kill off before they can respond. If they can respond, then you have missed a shot or they are a tank. If you go into a willing fight with a tank, then you need to have the skills to pay the bills, and you better know how to use your grapple to shut down their charge and hope they can't aim for crap.

It's a last resort move under usual circumstances, and a decloaking move. You use it against any class as a final stalling move if you are taking heavy damage and don't think you can retreat/think you can win with the extra shotgun blast. If you're fighting an Assassin, a grapple from the start + a shotgun blast after usually kills her.

Point is, it leads up to a powerful combo, but you have to actually pull it off to deal the damage. It's not just right click -> half HP gone.

It's also a good idea to grapple almost any class if they are on your firebase. Worst case scenario they still kill you, but they die as well.

Yes I know what I'm talking about.

Best post i have seen here at the MNC forums to date.

I appreciate the input, but you hit right on my point. Every other class has a grapple-like ability that is a "right click -> half hp gone + daze/launch", so its frustrating that supports isnt. With our lack of escape mechanics, only close range weapons, and a turret that insists on killing every slim bot in the area before it will even consider shooting the tank planted right beside it... it seems I have less and less to fall back on.

I guess what I mean to say is that our weapons force us to engage at close range, but once there none of our skills are of any help, so a decent grapple would sure be nice.

I know people say that Turrets and airstrikes can be long range. But we have no ability to aim our turrets (rage inducing), and airstrikes are good only if you GZ or the pro isnt paying attention. Yes you can spam 3 all around them, and hope for the best, but then you're right back to having nothing but close range weapons.

The thing I love most about Support is that they don't fight like all the other pros.

The Support grapple doesn't do massive damage because that's not what it's for. It's for stalling (leading to death by firebase or teammates, or de-juicing), and for the fantastic grapple + shotgun combo, which is great for killing Assassins and other pros that you've softened with a shotty blast or two.

Support is one of the classes that I think is perfectly balanced right now. I never feel underpowered playing it, you just can't engage enemies as if you were one of the other pros.

Fake Edit to latest post: Support hardly needs anything else to help with close quarters combat. They already have arguably the best weapon for that. I don't see how you can claim they don't have enough, other than the gun that 1-2 shots a ton of pros.

A note about turrets
Turrets don't switch targets till their 1st target is either
a. dead
b. out of range

Yeah, the firebase is another instance where something in this game is not the same as a similar thing in TF2, and that's a good thing.

Left trigger grapples all do the same amount of damage, except the Assassin's.

Left trigger?

You mean "alternate fire grapples."

Alt-fire grapples all doing the same amount of damage except for the Assassin is another way of saying only the Tank and Support grapples do crap damage : P

But like I said I think it works just fine with the class, no need for a change.

Edit: Or I guess I should say they are the two classes that only have grapples that do crap damage.

Still, good info. I did not know all non-special grapples did the same amount of damage.

Lol, yes. Alternate fire grapples. Forgot I was in the PC area!

Every secondary weapon has an alternate fire grapple. They all do the same damage, save the Assassin. That means the Rail Gun, Shotgun, Mortar, Grenade Launcher, and SMG alternate fire grapples all do the same damage.

What are the numbers on the front/back grapple?

Well, for every classes alternate fire grapple other than the assassins. It's the same damage if you get them from behind or in front. If you get grappled from behind, it just instantly faces you towards them and runs through the animation.

Every other class doesn't have a shotgun where each shot instantly does that already (when it's not "Shoot -> entire hp gone"), nor a grapple that leads into a free such shotgun shot. Nor are they meant to constantly be around turrets or a dispensable firebase.

The Support's grapple is one of the best stalling tactics in the game. It's great vs. juiced characters. It's great to grapple someone, do some damage, then finish them off with a shotgun round to the face at the end of the animation, when they can't prevent it. Consider that you should always be around the cover of either turrets or your own firebase, and that "long delay" is a death sentence to your enemies which will be continuously shot by your firebase/turret during the procedure, and unable to avoid the 405 damage shot to the face at the end.

So yeah, it's you, not the Support.