What classes counter each other?

So I watched a video on MNC on my xbox the other day and saw one of the developers say: The assault and the tank are the anti assassin classes.

Any possibility one of your Uber folks could shed some light on the rest of the anti classes? I'm curious what you have to say about your game...rather than us always assuming we know the answer (because we always do).


Assassin: Tank, Assault
Assault: Sniper, Support
Gunner: Assault, Assassin
Sniper: Gunner, Sniper
Support: Tank, Assassin
Tank: Gunner, Support

While this all seems reasonable, I don't think it's right. Somewhere along the way the realistic and the idealistic blended together.

I mean I want to put the assassin as the anti sniper class but we all know that's not true with the frost trap trick. Due to my slam I rarely get killed by an assassin. But I also rarely get killed by assaults once I get my passive skill upgraded.

gunner counters everything
assault counters gunner, assassin
assassin counters snipers(if u can dodge traps) and camping supports (unless sitting on firebase)
support counters everything
sniper counters everything
tank nullifies assassins and counters snipers

what should happen is completely different

and what does happen is largely dependent on play style

I don't know if every class is supposed to have a "hard" counter like the assassin does in the tank.

In actuality, most of the classes have viable counter strats against other classes. The Tank vs Assassin (tank wins) and Gunner vs Sniper (Sniper wins) are probably the two most lop sided examples of Class vs class combat.

I know you and I completely disagree on the gunner vs tank argument, but I feel that the tank takes long range. The gunner wins mid range, and the close range is close to 50/50 (leaning towards tank) depending on who sees who first, if the gunner hits his slam (against a jet pack target), if the tank hits blind (against a huge target), etc. Even if I assume 50/50 there, the gunner and the tank would come out closer to a draw or maybe a SLIGHT advantage of one to the other. I would not classify either as a complete counter to one-another.

With that said, how on EARTH is the support a counter to the tank? Supports are next to assassins in my priority list of worrying about dying. The tank has enough damage, health and crowd control to kill most supports AND their fire-bases. Healhurt and Shotgun both require a distance that makes them chargeable, knocked down, and dead. I blind firebases and hacked turrets and then jet gun/cluster bomb them. Literally the only thing about them that counters a tank is the air strike 1 shotting me, but thats something EVERY class faces, and even the tank can get to cover with his low move speed or charge if he needs it.

The most annoying thing about supports it their ability to over heal bot waves and their health aura making bots non-oneshotable from blossom. That is literally my biggest problem and i've played against some very good supports.

Everything counters everything, every class has their slight edge over the others.

Aside from how the Assasin kills the Sniper easily and the Sniper kills Gunners and Tank easily, I'd have to say the counter system is otherwise more subtle. All the classes have ways to beat an Assasin when they survive their grapple (in the Assasin's case, it's a crapshoot there.), all classes can jump over sniper traps, all classes may attack Support turrets while out of its range (except for other Supports), everyone is equally screwed by a stuck bomb, airstrike beacon, getting hit by Slam from overhead, and headshotted. I'd really have to say it's a matter of accuracy, tactics, positioning and some deliberation rather than a strict rock, paper, scissors system.

Assault, gunner, tank, and assassin can get over traps, supports and snipers can't, assassins die after a non lethal grapple cause they don't know how to play, for non heavies, a lunge after the grab kills, for heavies, bunny hop and shuriken, game.

I know but I was hoping to get a dev response. Everyone's practically yelling my class is supposed to be this.... I'd like to hear what the people who made the game have to say.

I've never lost a 1 on 1 fight against a tank at long range. If a tank stars with the rail I can just run away if he's out of effective range of my guns. Also the mortar is better than the rail gun as the split makes it harder to dodge. The rail isn't the easiest weapon to land a hit with when I'm jumping and dodging. If you use your charge to chase then you won't have it if we get too close (and then I win that battle no contest). Tank vs gunner battles at close range aren't 50/50 if the gunner pre-spins his miniguns. I'd say most of my battles with tanks at point blank range are 50/50 (aka close enough to try a grapple or slam). The only thing that will change this ratio is when the tank has level 3 charge or when the gunner hasn't hit his level 3 passive. I only get hit with the blind grenade when I am getting attacked from the rear or side.

Airstrikes do wonders against tanks. You are the slowest class if you save the charge to do damage. Good supports will stick you with an airstrike before you get close. Your railgun doesn't do much damage, and at long range you're just going to give the support juice. A hacked and overhealed 3.3 turret combined with the shotgun is a great way to kill tanks.

Also as you mentioned, a smart support sets up his base in the bot lane so he overheals the bots that pass (The antenna also makes the bots shoot farther). Long before you get to the support you'll be taking fire from his base and quite possibly bots too.

Finally but most importantly I made that little table with the idea that every class had two classes it was good at killing. I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about the last few class matchups. But I did say I don't think it was perfect.

Who do you think kills tanks best? Snipers and Gunners? That of course assumes that every class has two problematic classes.

I'd agree with you when you take endorsements into consideration. They really change everything. An easy example.... want to annoy assassins as a gunner? Use a gold armor endorsement. Doing so will cost you quite a bit of offensive potential but it is an option. Want to be great at killing gunners as an assault... use a gold accuracy endorsement.

But if you remove endorsements from the discussion for a moment I think there was an intended this class beats this class idea.

I disagree with that part, each class is pretty well rounded with what they do, but it depends on the person playing it, i for one can take down any class easily as assassin, minus tank, from the front. and the gold armor will only slow an assassin down untill she gets her sword, only the tank can survive a backstab from that.

It's just some classes have a harder time taking down others, not some classes humiliate others, like every class can easily take down an assassin if you catch them off gaurd.

Class: Counters

Assault: Tank, Gunner
Sniper: Assault, Assassin
Gunner: Sniper, Tank
Assassin: Tank, Assault
Support: Gunner, Tank, Assault
Tank: Sniper

The only thing that counters Assault is a good Support camping a firebase or turret, but really that impedes their progress as much as it does the Assault's. A good Assault will be moving around enough to be hard to headshot, can fly over freeze traps, will go into fly and be ungrapple-able as soon as they hear the Assassin's cloak (or steps), can engage a Tank easily outside their comfort zone and push them back if they get to close and can often outmaneuver Gunners, or simply throw a bomb on them while they're slow from their rev.

Each class has advantages and disadvantages. It's just about knowing how to use them.

How does the assassin counter the sniper? His traps make the assassin useless, and don't say jump over the traps, that's impossible when he stands on top of a trap that sets a cooldown on her grapple.

Why would an Assassin ever pick a fight with a Sniper? If they're camping, ignore them. You're the last class they should be hitting. If they come to you, you've got plenty of options to deal.

If you really think about it no class really beats other classes. Its the player who uses em. But go on as you wanna believe lol. :lol:

That doesn't mean that sniper is not the assassins counter-class. And you can't really ignore them if they're locking down an entire lane.

Kind of true but there's still some classes who are really really hard to kill with a specific class. For example, a tank will kill an assassin 90% of the time, and a sniper with lvl 3 traps is almost impossible to kill with an assassin. (I'm using the assassin as an example because it's the class that I play the most.)

Shurikens! It takes 5 to kill a basic sniper with no armour, you start with double that.

You shouldn't look at it from a purely PvP perspective. If an Assassin is cloaking, popping up to destroy a few bots, hiding again and pelting the Sniper with shurikens whenever he comes out, it can severely limit his effectiveness. If he puts down freeze traps to prevent this, it'll likely leave him exposed somewhere.

All circumstances aside, from personal observation it generally seems that every class has at least one counter class, no matter how "overpowered" a class may seem to be. For general preference I will list the "top three" counters of each class from my personal opinion.

Assault: Gunner, Assault, Tank
Tank: Support, Sniper, Gunner
Support: Assassin, Assault, Gunner
Gunner: Sniper, Assassin, Tank
Sniper: Assassin, Sniper, Assault
Assassin: Assault, Tank, Gunner

I'm so glad someone else understands this.

A sniper who puts his traps down next to his turrets/moneyball instead of next to his perch is 100000000x more useful to his team, despite being easier to kill by the assassin.

We played against a sniper who was a good shot (who sniped every map) and would go like 20/0 on good games, but he never once went for the objective before overtime. He camped his ice traps the entire game to the point where I knew exactly where they would be placed every time. He was near unreachable, and it took so much effort to kill him. He would be near the bottom of the scoreboard with 10+ kills and no deaths, and only start climbing up because of his streak. He depended on the game going LONG to have good earnings.

Finally, we just started ignoring him and pushing thier base in the first few mins of every game. He never moved his traps to help his team, and we never stepped on them. He lost 5 games in a row and before quitting out.

Even if the assassin can't reach the sniper, she can counter him on every map (except maybe steel peel) by her PvE strengths in the game. (Changing lanes and pushing that one into the base.) Once the sniper starts using his traps to benefit the TEAM, he is often much more vulnerable as an individual.

Also, the assassin can simply get behind enemy lines and kill the bots as they spawn, negating any kind of push threat from a lane.

except for how snipers can see cloaked assassins. i would love one to try to shuriken me cuz those things are impossible to use on moving targets and gives me a straight shot at their head.