Here's a brief summary of factors that impact unit relationships, posted mostly for those who haven't previously conceived of unit attributes in this manner: -Weapon Attributes --Damage: Higher damage improves performance against smaller numbers of high-health targets. --Rate of Fire: Higher rate of fire improves performance against multiple smaller targets. --Accuracy/Firing Randomness: Lower accuracy reduces capacity to hit small targets. --Maximum Range: Higher max range improves performance against all target types. --Minimum range: Higher minimum range reduces performance against faster targets. --Damage radius/splash: Higher splash improves performance against multiple targets. -Projectile characteristics: --Velocity: Higher velocity improves accuracy against all moving targets. --Tracking: Tracking improves accuracy against all moving targets. --Ballistic arc: Higher arc reduces impact of terrain, lower arc improves accuracy. -Chassis characteristics: --Acceleration/turn speed: Higher acceleration improves tactical maneuverability (dodging shots, out-running enemies) --Maximum speed: Higher speed improves strategic maneuverability (picking and choosing battles, reduces impact of long distances) --Health: Higher health improves resistance to all damage sources --Metal Cost: Higher cost reduces how many can and will be built. Although PA, if it's anything like FA, has over a hundred specifically definable attributes for each unit, and others for weapons and projectiles, the ones above have the strongest influence on balance and should be considered for their impact. Balance changes should be considered using the above as a key. Suppose a tank is too weak against structures, but okay vs other mobile units: An improper response would be increasing health, as health does not contribute towards the ability to successfully engage structures. Higher projectile velocity would be similarly pointless. A more proper balance choice would be to improve damage (increase effectiveness against all targets) while decreasing projectile speed and increase projectile ballistic arc (both decrease effectiveness against moving targets.)
What are you trying to say? Do you want upgrades increasing certain attributes of units? If so, then Uber have said that they are not going to spend a great deal of time, if any, on developing an upgrade system. Balance wise, it shouldn't be a problem, because the game will be playable in alpha and beta allowing for balance changes much earlier on in development than usual.
It's a reference post. There's nothing he's trying to say other than that. Don't see why it's in the Backers Lounge though.
The point is that a lot of people aren't familiar with HOW the simulation aspect of SupCom works and think in terms of Starcraft or other such RTS games. This isn't about upgrades, more so it's a PSA about how many ways there are to adjust balance that is easily readable and functions on common sense as opposed to something like Armor/Damage Types. Mike
Yeah, I really like this thread. People should have it in mind while playtesting alpha/beta so that they can come with more detailed/nuanced feedback about the balance of units.
I made this topic because people don't seem to intuitively understand either the appropriate changes to solve a problem, or most likely effects of a specific proposed change. This should provide a glancing familiarity with the subject.
Thanks for clearing that up. I was just confused because that all seemed pretty logical for me. It was like:"Increase the size of the sandwich = You can eat more". I didn't knew there was such a lack of understanding. So thank you for posting this (and increasing the quality of all balancing related topics).
I think mesh size is also very important to be considered. Here i'll just write it for ease of copy pasta. --Model Size / Footprint: Larger model sizes are easier to hit with weapons but will also tend to block units behind them from being hit.Smaller model sizes tend to require AoE weapons to hit as direct hits can be difficult. Gah that's a bit longer than i thought but it covers the issue. also i changed it to model size halfway through because more people know what that is.
I dont go with the line: Higher bullet velocity improves accuracy. I think you mix up two different things here. With higher bullet velocity you decrease the time the aim has to dodge the shot. But if you arc is of with 100km/h or 300km/h you will miss. I think more of velocity and accuracy as related properties.
I think velocity is more about accuracy at long range, but what he has basically covers the long and short of it. However he also has ballistic arc, which is a dependent variable on velocity as higher velocity shots will have a lower arc (lasers have effectively infinite velocity). Although there is the binary decision between high arc (high tech artillery that essentially drops shells on things) and low arcs (that fire directly at the target).
Keep in mind, regarding arc, there are two possible arcs for any projectile speed: An arc under 45 degrees and an arc above 45 degrees. The higher arc is less affected by terrain, the lower arc is more accurate and has the projectile reach the target faster. Also, projectile velocity doesn't directly improve accuracy, but it does reduce "hang time", which is how much time the bullet spends travelling between the weapon and the target. Even very slow projectiles with very long hang times will have very high accuracy against stationary targets, like MMLs in Supcom 2. Long hang times (low projectile speed) only reduce accuracy against moving targets.
I suggest bolding the attribute vs the description, make it easier to read. What would be really cool is if Neutrino could just slap a copy-paste of a unit blueprint in here, and then we could identify each attribute and how it affects balance. One thing missed, for example, is turret tracking speed - how fast the turret can turn to track the target. Killing a Goliath with a Peewee because you've microed the Peewee in circles around the slow turret was always fun.
Good thread, thanks for the post! I admit that I had not given much, if any, thought about the specifics of how unit attributes affect gameplay, but I will revisit this information before giving feedback on the play-testing. As stated by paws, An uber-endorsed list of (main) attributes and their affect on gameplay would be awesome, and would most likely benefit everyone who participates in the alpha and beta.
I believe turret/torso turn rate should be in the OP, if you're making a list. It's somewhat different than actual turn rate, especially for small tanks and ships.
Also increased maximum range is a boost against slow units more than fast units, and of course outranging a static defense is best of all.
