Water

Hi all.

From the livestream we see that craters are built in game. What happens when they intersect a sea, is there any kind of fluid dynamic? Is the water on a planet limited, or will a crater just be filled with water if it hits, or partially hits, an ocean.

Cheers

Chris

This is a good question!

I expect to see fluid movement. How odd would it be if a huge meteorite or even asteroid hits a sea bed and the water stands still?

This is on the confirmed features and suggestions (or a parallel question at least):

{R} Water and lava fluid simulation (allowing for tsunamis, etc): #1

It doesn't look like they are going for a full water sim, but I'd really like to see it. I can appreciate that it would be exceedingly hard to code though, and hell on a system.

I think they mentioned Tsunamis in one of its kickstarter updates.
It doesn't need to be a perfect water simulation.. but something that generates visual/gameplay effects when a meteor hits the ocean.

I think it's actually more important than we think.

Example, I have a massive navy, but the enemy's base is surrounded by dry land. Blow a crater to increase the size of the ocean, and bam, your navy is on his door step.

Or, you have a massive land attack incoming, you blow the land bridge away, and his units can't get over the water.

Very interested on how this is going to be handled. I see a few possibilities.

One, water is a layer that appears at a certain depth

Two, a planet has a finite amount of water, and it flows where it can, meaning you could drain an ocean and beach a navy

Three, water is infinite, and fills all craters where an ocean is connected.

Chris

Water will most likely be a layer that appears at a certain depth. That's the way SupCom did it, that would be the way TA would have done it if it wasn't tile-based. Anything else would be far too taxing on this system, and far too much for the developers to handle in their short time window.

If the guys from 'From Dust' were working on this, it would be a more understandable goal.

However, it was mentioned that lava 'bubbles up' from volcanoes and craters, so it's possible that there will be a limited simulation, but nothing hyper-realistic where you can throw a nuke in an ocean and make it rain radioactive superheated water.

This is not what I thought I saw in the planet gen demo, ie some craters full, some empty. If the water is a layer would all craters not be flooded?

Edit

Ps the point of my post was not to suggest what they should do, but what system they are implementing,

Giant water drop explosion from asteroids

Don't worry, I'm just as curious as you are, I'm just speculating.

I noticed that as well. NEUTRINO TELL US! TELL US TELL US TELL US TELL US! *tugs on Neutrino*

Well that escalated quickly :lol:

I don't think we're going to see dynamic fluid simulation for this type of game. Apart from the visual aspect, it really wouldn't offer much in terms of gameplay to warrant the resource cost.

I think they'll have a really simple "fill in" system for the craters, rather than the stark intersect when the crater is added. But, it's not going to be pixel perfect.

Reminds of Lords of the Rings: Two Towers and the ents flooding Isengard. Imagine your commander in a tower getting rocks thrown at him while his base washes away.

Well, in the live stream Neutrino said that crater were fill with water because they were generated at runtime.
With some stretch, I can assume that if the crater is created at playtime, it will not be necessary filled with water.
And with flowfield being really dynamic, changing the water level could be quite easy ( pathing wise )

Btw, it does not necessary mean fluid simulation. They could just naively adjust the water level.

I'm pretty sure we can rule out "finite amount of water" because that's ridulously difficult to code. Especially in a game with many many planets to worry about.

The two main options that are viable are layers of water, so if ground gets destroyed below a certain level, water appears. And then infinite water reproduction, so if a crater gets made next to an ocean, it fills. If a crater gets made in the middle of land, no water.

I think the "infinite water" idea makes the most sense. That way craters on land will be dry, craters next to water will be water.

That's still very difficult, what happens if a crater is made on land, then one next to it that intersects it *and* the water? The simpler way is just make a water table, terrain that goes below it shows water whether it touches an existing body or not. Some planets wouldn't have a water table though, but could have a lava table instead.

Well, maybe it is not that hard to change the water layer height (it looks like the water layer is a sphere, meaning that it is possible to change the sphere radius, making it smaller or bigger). It is possible (and easy, taking in account that it don't need to be precise) to calculate the volume of water needed to fill the crater. With this volume, it is possible to know how much you need to decrease the water layer height.
But I'm still curious about what will happen when an small/medium meteor hits the ocean leaving no crater at all.. just like the movie Deep Impact...

Misconception. Asteroids would never "hit" the water - they would evaporate it as the entered it, and end up hitting the bedrock below, leaving just as big a crater (although still causing a tidal wave).

I think you got the idea =)

A simple (see not complex: don't fry my computer plz) water sim could be quite cool

A: lets say an opponent has a large navy off the shore of a lake your near to, your main base is getting bombarded but you manage to sneak a few engies out you move a ways away along the shore and the you have the option of either building some sea factories out of sight, or you can build pumps to drain the lake partially either beaching the navy to allow you land units to get at them, or force them back out of range.