[Tournament] Official PACE League - Commander of March - 15th March

Discussion in 'Planetary Annihilation General Discussion' started by Martenus, March 5, 2014.

  1. jonathanstey

    jonathanstey Member

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    why not make a artificial intellegence that get's all the information and keeps changing the ai every time and then will cause the destruction of mankind?
  2. Martenus

    Martenus Well-Known Member

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    And how is this related to the tournament? :D
  3. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    My challonge username is Stuart98.
  4. jonathanstey

    jonathanstey Member

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    only a bit, we were discussing HARD ai and that they don't learn.
  5. trialq

    trialq Post Master General

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    I signed up as reserve last week, just re-iterating that I am available if there's a dropout. I'll hang out on irc near the start of the tournament, but also please pm on these forums if you want me to participate.

    BTW what do you think about spectator slots? First-come-first-serve spectator slots would be nice, although I guess **** spectators can disrupt the tournament. Note to Uber: Two tiers of spectator would be good, those that can talk to players and those that can't.
  6. Martenus

    Martenus Well-Known Member

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    Well, I believe there are some robots nowadays that have some very basic AI. But majority of robots are just ... robots. They only do, what they were programmed to do.

    Making a "perfect" AI pretty much means to get to a point our computers have the same computing power as our brain. I believe that is just the first step, because then we might need something called "soul" for the AI to work properly.

    And if we achieve that (or proove there is no "soul" needed and we only need the computing power) that is gonna be truly amazing. On the other hand, it will be scary and it might **** the economy hard. Imagine the unemployment if a person can be replaced by a thinking robot, that can work 24/7, has its mouth shout, doesn't eat and doesn't need breaks.

    Our chance might be to study engineering to take care about the robots. Actually, why not have a robot taking care of the robots?

    Well, f*ck.
  7. Martenus

    Martenus Well-Known Member

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    No spectators, too much work to handle.
    Also, it can be used for cheating.

    So no no no, never. Only casters and officials can spectate.
  8. trialq

    trialq Post Master General

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    It's not that it can be used for cheating (there are much better ways to do that), it's that a **** divulging info in chat is disruptive. Notice I suggested it, retracted it after some thought, and offered a way to make it viable. Maybe I should have been clearer on the retraction, or refrain from stream-of-consciousness posting.
  9. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    So if I repeat the same mistakes each game I can get an eco bonus too?

    The line you're drawing is ridiculously arbitrary based on very poor assumptions about how good most players are at adapting their style. The meta in every RTS is dictated by the top few players; most people aren't going to learn and change their style mid-tournament, they're going to see what the top players did and run with it. When I started trying to tech rush it wasn't because my human brain learned, it's because I saw matiz was having great success with it. The AI learns in much the same way. Sorian will review games and update the AI accordingly. Later the neural net will go in and the AI will change its behaviour according to stat changes.

    Yeah, the AI now is poor. So what? Tough luck for the AI. This is a tournament, and I worry some poor player is going to get unfairly shafted because of your terrible assumptions where you confuse community awareness with skill. Or if it loses every game then what was the point of using hard over normal?
    cptconundrum likes this.
  10. Martenus

    Martenus Well-Known Member

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    I am talking about long term learning. Of course not everyone is capable learning new stuff within minutes or changing his playstyle mid tournament.

    Normal AI is simply too easy to be in the tournament.
  11. Martenus

    Martenus Well-Known Member

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    You can change your name ingame very easily, you can just join your friend's game and tell him all you see on teamspeak, very effective cheating.
    The chat is disruptive as well.

    There is too many cons and very little pros. We have casters to show the game, no need for direct spectating and dealing with more problems.
  12. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Sorry, when did the tournament develop a minimum skill entry level? May I remind you that in the last tournament we had entrants who had literally never played before.
    stuart98 likes this.
  13. Martenus

    Martenus Well-Known Member

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    And we have even more of them this time.

    If you want to learn and get better in this game, you need to face better opponents. If you gonna crush randoms noobs all day all week you will barely improve.

    I understand it might be frustrating to lose, but you get much more from losing than from winning - skillwise.

    Having too easy AI in the tournament will be pointless and would probably add nothing.

    I repeat it again, I treat the players entering the tournament as people with balls, who want to learn to play competitively, no matter their current skill. If you cannot deal with losing, then you probably shouldn't enter the tournament.
    If you are scared of Hard AI, then you probably shouldn't enter either, because more than a half players in the tournament are better than Hard AI.

    I always appreciate the feedback from players and I try to accomodate the majority and fix the problems asap. I am always open to good suggestions, but this thing about Hard AI is silly.

    You are entering the tournament, you cannot expect anyone to hold your hand here. It is a rough competitive environment. There are much worse things you will face today, I can name if you wish. Much worse, beastly, deadly, APM heavy players who only lure for your blood and who will kill you in the first chance they have. Watch your back, watch your front and especially very important thing, don't blink.
  14. ozonexo3

    ozonexo3 Active Member

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    This will be my first PA turnament. I just read requirements and there is that I need to be on IRC. How can i get there?

    edit: ah, just found it :D
    Last edited: March 15, 2014
  15. trialq

    trialq Post Master General

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    A friend could look at the stream, or pastats, both better ways to cheat than spectating imo, which I've already said. We're going in circles and this off-topic-ness has gone on long enough :p
  16. Martenus

    Martenus Well-Known Member

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    :) See, everything is there!
  17. Martenus

    Martenus Well-Known Member

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    Stream is delayed and does not cover things you need, you are dependant on what stremer focuses on.

    PA Stats only tell you stats, not place (well, not anymore). PA Stats live feed back be disabled.

    So yes, spectating a direct game is the best way to cheat, no question about that. You can choose what to spectate and observe everything you need. Type, time, place, everything.
  18. cptconundrum

    cptconundrum Post Master General

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    For tournaments, PA Stats live reporting should not be disabled. It is very useful for following games.
  19. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Wow, talk about missing the point.
  20. tut768

    tut768 New Member

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    why is the AI in the tournament in the first place? If its there to fill in empty places why put something in that can easily beat new players the hard AI is as you said not going to challenge pros and i don't think that the pros will end up playing the AI it will be the new players which will lose if the AI is in there to fill spaces don't make it hard enough to smash new players

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