Titans to cheap

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by stylisticsagittarius, August 22, 2015.

  1. stylisticsagittarius

    stylisticsagittarius Active Member

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    I have played and watched a few games now.
    It's not that titans should be very very rare, but people are spamming titans now and almost never focus on a t2 army anymore. the resen for this is in my opinion that titans are to cheap compared to the damage they do.

    I would certainly NOT say to make them weaker they are strong enough! But T2 hase become to expensive compared to titans...
  2. Mirolog

    Mirolog Well-Known Member

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    Maybe adding big energy consumption? And removing the ability to build titans from orbital fabbers.
    So you can build titans, but:

    - strong economy is needed to make them functional
    - you can't have many titans operational
    - you can disable and kill enemy titan by destroying pgens
    igncom1 likes this.
  3. stylisticsagittarius

    stylisticsagittarius Active Member

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    I agree on orbital fabbers should not be able to build titans, I saw people build a orbitla laucher asap start construction of a titan and built the titan within 8 minuts with t1 fabbers. this is very very wrong....

    Large enrgy consumption is already in place but perhaps an even larger energy consumtpion would do the trick.
    Even without energy your energy drawing units are still able to fire, they just do it a little slower...
  4. pieman2906

    pieman2906 Well-Known Member

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    Titans are quite powerful, but they go down really quick if they get dogpiled without support.

    the Zeus goes down to fighters right quick, while the atlas and Ares die moderately quickly to bombing runs, or at least can't really fight back against an air assault.

    I played a game earlier today, and I'm not sure about exact numbers, but it looked like those new orbital battleships can solo kill a Helios, and even then the new orbital rail guns make short work of them as well.

    All the titans have some critical weak spots in their defenses, if a titan is attacking unsupported exploiting those weaknesses is an easy way to ensure your opponent has just wasted a tonne of metal.
  5. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    In my opinion, the titans are fine.
    T2 units are still very important since they are cheaper and easier to be obtained in middle game.
    If you can knockout your opponent by T2 unit spam, you don't need to build the titan.

    The titans still require other units to support, and they are very expensive.
    Even if the orbital fabricator can build them, I still build the T2 factory first in order to get the T2 metal extractor and T2 units.
    If the map system contains a gas giant, the orbital fabricator may be practicable to make the early titan with jig eco.
    Otherwise, it is impracticable to build the titan without T2 units spam.
    mered4 likes this.
  6. LeadfootSlim

    LeadfootSlim Well-Known Member

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    I feel like the Helios is the only one that's problematic, especially with Manhattans as a combo. It seems like a dear price to pay a Titan to drop one nuke, but when you consider the ratio of nuke:antinuke it's a no-brainer. A more subtle nerf to it would be to have it take a brief period to "descend" into position before teleports, giving Umbrellas a chance to gib it if used in sufficient quantity.
  7. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    I think it's more that Titans are immeasurably cool, that most players don't apply enough pressure to stop their opponents investing in expensive projects, and that most players are terrible at evaluating cost effectiveness.

    I'm glad that Titans are accessible.
    gmase, stuart98, Nicb1 and 1 other person like this.
  8. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    I have yet to actually use one in a game that wasn't me just letting the AI survive long enough for me to build one.

    Hell...most games don't even get to T2 before the T1 swarm devours most of the map!

    But that's only in the small games, in larger FFAs....the AI always, ALWAYS annihilates me with nukes as they gang up on me!

    Gitz!
    sgrock likes this.
  9. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    the only unit i found too cheap at the moment would actualy have to be the ares .....
    like seriously that thing does NOT CARE about FRIGGIN DOUBLE NUKE
    and in a sandboxtest (granted badly microed) anything feels ineffective against it other than t2 air and t2 tanks ...
    the thing even 2 shots leviathans ... THIS THING is scary ... it´s pretty much a megalith just without the buildcapacity but a buttload of alphadamage ...

    both atlas and manhattan can be well busted with booms .. even though with the atlas you might wanna be carefull with the shockwave ... but good luck scratching the ares with them ...
    Last edited: September 23, 2015
  10. pjkon1

    pjkon1 Member

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    Don't Holkins have both more range and more damage per metal then the ares?
  11. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    holkins are stationary .. that's like the worst limitation for it as a counteroption
  12. pjkon1

    pjkon1 Member

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    And bumblebees can kill the ares with zero losses and are among the most mobile thing in the map. Boom bots are nearly as mobile and can also wipe out the ares with ease with equal metal, any t1 army that gets in range be it bots or tanks will slaughter the ares with more damage and similar health per metal, and the ares is too slow to prevent the range from closing. I haven't even mentioned SXXs yet. We have things that beat the ares in a battle, with an air strike, in a bombardment fight, with a quick raid, and from orbit. What do you want? Something that beats it at its own game of mobile artillery duel? Won't that make it completely worthless?
  13. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    weren't you the one who asked me about the holkins beating the ares?

    also you would need tons of bumblebees to do any damage to the ares ... boombots have been swatted by it due to its destructive aura i send the same number of boombots against the ares as i did against the atlas .. as were the the atlas got blasted with timing the ares didn't even flinge .. bots that get too close to it suffer a similar fate with them notdoing enough damage you would again need tons of them ... t2 air and tanks are a more costefficient option ...

    also people rarely go orbital in 1v1's even less so with orbital factories ..
    Last edited: September 23, 2015
  14. pjkon1

    pjkon1 Member

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    Um....yes....its in the quote. That's sort of the point. Ares in not too good. It loses to holkins in terms of siege damage, it also loses to t1 armies in battles, it also loses to bombers. What would it be good at if shelters could beat it to?
  15. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    again the ares has the significant advantage of being mobile aswell as being able to hover.. both of which the holkins and the sheller aren't ..
    the holkins can only cover a certain area at anytime ... the ares can be better redirected to were its firepower is needed to ... shellers don't have much hp to survive long enough and they can't travers water or lava ...
    i don't agree with t1 beating the ares so easily as you suggest .. yes bombers may have no problem if there is no aa coverage but again you would need large numbers against it .. any t1 ground unitarmy the ares punches through with its aoe .. it may rather struggle when surrounded but i don't see that happening ..
  16. pjkon1

    pjkon1 Member

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    Hover is an advantage, but it only matters on a few maps and on those kaiju are as good or better since they out range everything round that's not artillery and do much more damage per metal, as to the t1 vs ares, seriously, just compare health and dps per metal, the only ground unit worse then the ares in dps is the shelter, and the ares over kills T1 like mad, which counters the splash.
  17. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    kaijus are limited trough needing water to be even build so if you battle on a moon kaijus aren't even an option ..
    and yes of course the splash is overkill ...
    the ares is meant for base siege
    and for that your options are the sheller, the stationary holkins and the ares ...
    it's not an armycleaner like the atlas or zeus ...
  18. pjkon1

    pjkon1 Member

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    Agreed. It is designed to bombard bases. It does that well. It has a role. No need to make it worthless at that role, it's not like it's taking the role of anything else.
  19. Phireh

    Phireh Member

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    Noone seems to mention my absolute favourite thing about the Ares: it deals damage to enemy units that are at close range. It can't be killed with boombots, infernos, vanguards, etc. The biggest problem of the Ares isn't damage but the fact that its cannon has problems aiming on small planets due to the curvature of the map, and that its pathfinding is bad. You really don't wanna use it on maps with a lot of CSG either.
  20. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    in a sandboxgame i had like 2 dozen of vanguards against it fairly spread out
    they didn't have much trouble with the ares ... vanguards can tank aresshots .. you just can't have them close to its damagingfield
    Last edited: September 24, 2015

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