Tips for playing defensive Support

Some random thoughts, opinions and general tips on defensive support, having tried it for a few hours post-DLC. I was going to post this in response to Arctic Fox's guide, but the post got way bigger than I intended:

Gold RoF is still the best option. It means you can save and restore an already damaged turret that's under fire, even saving turrets under fire from juiced pros at times.

Other endorsements I run with are silver armour and bronze skill. Bronze is enough to have 3 turrets hacked, so I prefer the increased armour. Air strikes don't play a large part in my play style. Gold Skill may allow four turrets to be hacked, but the timing would be tight and you'll often be distracted doing other stuff.

Never build lazer blazers, as mentioned in numerous other threads. Enemies will quickly juice off them. Buying them helps you lose.

At match start go for hack 2/firebase 2 and set your 2.2 firebase up near a bot lane to help build cash.

Favour one of the default start rock-it turrets and aim to get it to 3.3 as soon as possible. Hack and overheal the other one of course, but don't spread your money between the two.

When you have your 3.3 rock-it ready, move your firebase back to base to assist in defending against juiced players. You'll want it positioned so that it can reach both rock-its as well as the upper circle where opponents can shoot the moneyball/turrets. Keep it on the ground under cover to protect from air stikes, make sure the moneyball isn't blocking line of fire to usual opponent firing positions on the upper circle. You want it to be able to shoot those players whether the moneyball has dropped or not.

When juiced players attack, adapt to their behaviour and class. A juiced assassin heading straight for your 3.3 means you need to choose between healing the turret or shotgunning her. Make that decision instantly because otherwise your turret is gone. I'd normally go shotgun but you have to be close, so good awareness and keen ears for the juice sound are required. Pray that she attacks you instead because that gives you a chance to get at least one shotgun blast in, after which she should get taken down by the firebase/rock-it combo. Don't worry if you die, as long as she does too before killing your turret. You'll be back down there in a few seconds, she has to get juice again and run all the way back.

Other juiced pros won't take down the turret quite as lightning fast as the assassin but you still need to react quickly. Shotgun them or heal the turret depending on the situation. If you have both 3.3 rock-its and the firebase up, healing is often the best option because they'll be dishing out enough damage to kill the pro quickly.

Grapple seems really flaky to me, but I play from the UK and often have lag. It's a good juice time waster though. Anything to stop the juiced pro moving around is good too, because the rock-its can easily hit them. Throw yourself in front of them in the hope they grapple you if necessary. They will die shortly afterwards.

Grapple bouncers to instantly kill rather than run around hurt gunning them. The juice you get from it is minimal and the enemy may attack while you're distacted.

For your own juice, judge the state of the game and your opponents situation. If you're under pressure, save it and use it to help defend against juiced attackers. If your team is doing well, take a break from defense and go destroy some enemy turrets, then head straight back.

Aim to get the starter rock-it turrets both to 3.3 with your .3 firebase also at home base by end game. If cash is plentiful and there's a good spot to throw down a shave-ice, it will help too. Until you have your rock-its upgraded, don't spend any cash on endorsements beyond hack 3 and firebase 2.

Hope your team concentrates on pro killing and ignores enemy bots. You'll get a lot more cash because the bots will fall to your rock-its and the enemy pros will be spending less time on base attack.

Talk friendly snipers into throwing down an ice trap or two to trap juiced enemies in your base.

If you lose one of your turrets, consider saving up the $1050 needed for a rock-it 3.3 and only building it once you can build the whole thing. Your other rock-it and firebase will keep bots away, and anything less the an overhealed level 3 will get destroyed easily.

Watch for players taking hitting your turrets from distance. Heal through the damage and hope your teammates are quick to deal with them. Juiced gunners using Gold RoF mortar from distance = dead turret. Just accept it

Upgrade your passive if you have spare cash as it may help you live, and kill streaks help with the $. Upgrade airstrike only when you have money in hand to replace a broken turret. The nerfed airstrikes are still very handy in certain situations, but money is generally better spent elsewhere.

If you have another good support with a second .3 firebase the enemy will have a hard time getting in. Unless you have one like I did the other day who ran up to my freshly hacked 3.3 rock-it and re-hacked it back to 3.1. Brilliant!


Summary:
Adapt to the conditions of the game. Move up and play more offensively to get cash if possible, but don't get too distracted from your task or you'll return to a base of smoking turret nubs. Sacrifice yourself if it means your turrets live. Listen for the juice sound always so you can get to the juiced enemy quickly. Accept that if you're on a team of bad players there's not much you can do about it and you're going to lose. Accept that defensive support will earn a lot less kills and money than you're used to and is a bit of a thankless role. You'll be a huge help to the team, but won't get any glory for it and most people won't even realise

This is all just my opinion of course, and based off limited play time. I'd love to hear the thoughts of more experienced supports.

I play both offense & defense when I play support & totally different play style. Of course it works for me. But I guess this helps nubs if they never used or dont know how to on the new map or anything at all. So uhm good tips.

I normally play much more offensively too, I just tried pure defensive to see if it's possible, and it's very effective and certainly not just for "nubs". It's a match winner if you do it right because it leads to your opponents wasting all their juice runs, well into overtime if your turret setup is good and your reactions are sharp.

Well yeah if I play defense no way were losing unless my team cant play offense this that's when I say F it & I play offense & we win. When im support though or assassin I play defense & offense. Mainly support though. I mainly chill back till I get juice which is fast cause im boss lol jk.. but seriously then I go on a rampage then usually they have no turrets & I killed about 2-4pros. Then I move back & start building turrets & healing my teammates/bots to move forward. Its really effective.

Yep that's my normal support playstyle pretty much, but you will still sometimes get back to homebase to find your turrets gone to a sneaky juiced assassin or other pro. My normal reaction to that is build a rock-it or two, just enough to hold off enemy bots, then carry on as before.

That's fine if your team knows what it's doing towards the end of the game, but you end up with scattered low level turrets that are nothing more than a speedbump to juiced pros. The pure defensive build gives you a group of 3.3 turrets that can withstand and defeat the juiced players with very little moneyball damage. Unless your opponents have a similarly strong defence, even average teammates will be able to juice rush and outdamage their moneyball.

I'm not saying it's the perfect strategy but it's one way of increasing your odds with an average team, and if you have a few players who know their game it gives you a big chance of winning. It's not always very fun to play though

I believe there is a HUGE flaw to your "focus on one tower" defense strategy. Essentially, your putting all of your eggs into one basket.

A tank can product grenade it.

An Assassin can smoke bomb it.

A gunner can mortar it.


This is even less useful in maps where its easy for classes to get to your upper ring above the turrets, as they can position themselves where the one turret can't even hit them.

I also don't believe you give shave ice turrets enough credit.

I also find it useful to upgrade airstrike to level 2. Its only 150 bucks for the ability to take out turrets without juice as well as area denial/possible insta-death when defending.

The focus on one tower strategy is only during early game. All I mean is concentrate on getting one level 3 instead of two level 2s. Firebase plus 3.3 rock-it can hold off most early attacks, and the level 3 is much harder to destroy. Two level 2s might be a better bet on Grenade 3 and Ammo Mule, where you're as likely to get attacked from both sides. On the other maps I find one of the turret spots is generally easier to defend, so make that my first 3.3

I love Shave-Ices and mentioned building them but they need to be placed after you've got your two 3.3 rock-its down. I normally do upgrade my airstrike, but only when all turrets are healthy and I have decent cash, and use them for all the things you mention.

For upper ring defence I rely on firebase placement, air strike, and shotgun if I can get up there in time.

Anyway, it's a strategy I've only tested for a short time and I'm sure it has weaknesses, but on the times I've tried it, it's worked better than I expected.

That's a little too defensive for my taste.

FB/Hack to 2, all skills to 2. Then Hack 3. Then 1 RockIt/ShaveIt both to 2.3 along with 2.3 FB.

Starting pushing ONLY ON YOUR SIDE with the bots. Abuse the bot aura. Overheal the bots. If you push and get into the enemy's half, retreat to the next group of bots/reheal turrets.

If you find yourself not using Airstrikes that often, start working on FB 3 THEN RockIt 3 (FB is FREE when destroyed and can be rebuilt at no cost. A 3.3 FB can handle a juiced assassin all by itself. It also provides you with healing to survive grapples as well. After that is RockIt 3 and ShaveIt 3. RockIt/ShaveIt/FB 3.3 combo is deadly to nearly every Pro and most juiced pros.

Always push bots forward when your combo is fully overhealed/hacked. Retreat everytime you get into enemy's half.

NEVER enter the enemy's half of the map UNLESS you have a Juice ready. If the enemy has no turrets, save the Juice for emergencies. If their moneyball is down, A full Juice using the Shotgun will easily take away 50% of the Moneyball's health all by yourself.

Alternatively, if you find yourself needing to abuse the airstrikes, get that to 3 before any of your turrets are three. Firebase should always be 3 before your turrets.

Again, a firebase is FREE OF COST. A RockIt 3 is expensive and takes time to rebuild. Also, A RockIt gives the enemy $35. A Firebase only gives $10.

You can play defensively and still push bots out of your base very effectively.

Passive 3 is useless unless you find yourself dying a bit too often or having too many close calls (or have tons of cash to blow)

This is more or less the way I play. The only difference is early game I will set up my firebase in an offensive position to make more money. Even if the enemy wipes my base while its gone, the base isnt built up enough to worry about those two measily level 1 rockits.

Also, i only use a 2.3 firebase. That extra 400 bucks can be used on base defense.

I normally leave my firebase at 2 until later in the game when my turrets are upgraded.

Gold skill recharge/silver RoF means four .3 hacked turrets if you keep an eye on your skill recharge.

Yes it's a very defensive strategy, but that's the point. I'm not saying stay in base the whole time though. Just be aware of your opponents while pushing bots and playing offensively, so you don't get caught out and lose your home turrets.

The argument that losing a FB is cheaper than losing a turret is of course valid, but the idea behind getting a level 3 turret as soon as possible is that level 3s are so much harder for the enemy to kill, plus their damage output is awesome. But it relies on you being there to babysit them and not have them destroyed.

I highly recommend trying 3.3 Firebases. Ally Pros will love you for an extra source of healing, it is SO much harder to destroy a 3.3 compared to a 2.3. A 3.3 has at least double the health of a 2.3. That's twice the firepower.

Enemy Pros destroy 3.3 FB 10 times = $100 for them, your loss? none.
Enemy Pros destroy 3.3 RockIt once = $35 for them, your loss? $1,050.
Enemy Pros destroy 3.3 RockIt three times = $105 for the, your loss? $3,150.

Really, if the enemy team has no Gunners, spamming L3 turrets wouldn't hurt. But if there's a Gunner, definitely go for L3 firebases. A Gunner will destroy L3 turrets in mere seconds and no matter how awesome you are as a Support, you can't stop it.

The healing aura have saved me and teammates more times than we can count, and reducing the number of deaths on our side means higher kill streaks.

Also, the skill recharge recovery is faster at 3, and picking up a L3 firebase instantly fills it up 3/4 compared to L2 only filling up halfway. The extra health is a huge boost and well worth the $400.

Can a Support with silver armor survive a backgrapple from an assassin?

Yea if overhealed :lol:

I think gold armour and passive2 is needed.

Interesting. Thanks.

That's a solid guide dude. Good work.

I just want to add, a 3.3 shaveice will turn the tide if ur really having trouble.

See you around

Defensive support is the way I personally like to play (and I'm not really good being strictly offensive). This is a solid guide. A few things though:

I'm not sure that building into just one rocket turret is the best option, because it's very easy to take down one if an assassin were to get juice early on, leaving one side severely weakened. Feel free to prove me wrong.

I'm not too good at using my shotgun to stop assassins and normally just resort to overhealing. How effective can it be, and how would one go about doing it?

Can you elaborate more on the versatility of the shave ice? I haven't been using it, but I'd like to start.

I know that it's almost always a better option to create rocket turrets over laser ones, but if both of the initial rocket turrets are down and bots are starting to pour in, wouldn't it be a good idea to make one or two just to distract the bots a little? I know you'd have to protect it afterwards though...

When is it a good idea to put long shots up? And what about gap shots?

I feel like investing in at least airstrike 2 is a good idea, just so that other supports will have a difficult time setting up shop close to your base and for the extra damage and protection it can bring.

Should you ever buy passive? I know it's helpful for pushing, but if you're almost always in the base a well placed firebase can do just as well in my opinion.

I hope I'm not asking too many questions. I don't know if you meant for this guide to be as elaborate as I'm asking it to be, and if it's not I apologize.

There are a lot of experienced support players out there more qualified to answer these questions, I just wanted to give a pure defensive support a try, but here are my thoughts:

I'd actually say the best idea is to go offensive early game and earn some $, then come back when you've got enough to build a level 3 in one hit. Two level 2s might be a better option on the symmetrical levels, but they don't help against an early juicer. You'll lose them both. The point is that a 3.3 rock-it, covered by a firebase, with you helping against juicers, kills all bots both sides and is difficult to take down. Anything less than an overhealed level 3 goes down too quickly to be able to defend.

Blasting a juiced assassin still does a decent amount of damage, and means they die to the combined turret/firebase fire before they can kill the turret. Plus you can grapple and slow them down that way.

It reveals cloaked gremlins and assassins, but most importantly it just slows enemy pros down, so they take a lot of damage before they reach your turrets. Shave Ice can also take a lot of damage and can distract bots and pros away from your more valuable turrets.
As Immortal says above, a 3.3 shave-ice covers a huge area and is very effective. But unless you go gold Skill Recharge, you can't keep 4 turrets permanently hacked, and 2x 3.3 rock-its + .3 firebase are absolutely necessary imo. So if you play gold RoF you'll need to settle for just a level 3 shave ice.

Maybe in those circumstances but if it doesn't get destroyed the enemy have free juice for the rest of the game. Until juice from lazers gets nerfed I think they're too risky. Others argue that not many people abuse the juice, and that they're worth it for the faster aiming and fire rate against quicker pros. So it's a judgement call.

As support I never build long shots. I'd rather buy gap shots as they do a similar job and are cheaper. Gap shots are a good idea whenever you want to take down the enemy turrets, providing the lane they follow is clear of enemies, as they are fragile. Build 2 or 3 at once so an enemy support can't heal through the damage.

I upgrade airstrike but normally it's later in the game. If more than one enemy support is regularly setting up firebases nearby I'd upgrade earlier.

Again it's low priority. The extra health helps especially later in the game.

In terms of playing defensive, I often juice and go kill enemy turrets still, and in overtime juicing and shotgunning the enemy moneyball can be a match winner. I just make sure my turrets are hacked and overhealed before doing so. Your average pub team often won't push bots or clear lanes and playing pure defensive in such situations means you lose.

I don't play defensive support. Sometimes I get stuck at the base, healing turrets, but I know they're going to get wiped out anyway. The only times I really get to turtle is when the rest of my team is doing well and killing the other pros before they build juice.

This is rare.

Most of the time I end up overhealing teammates and assisting them with a push forward. I've learned not to worry about the turrets at your base. No matter how much u overheal them, or what level of whichever turret you have spent hundreds of dollars on, they can all easily be wiped out by a juiced assassin with victory in mind. I will hack and overheal in the beginning, but the first time I see that juiced assassin coming, I know the base building isn't going to work.

I wont elaborate about offensive support on a defensive support post. I will, however, offer up my opinions on shaveice turrets.

BEST TURRET IN THE GAME.

Yeah, they cost a lil money, and you'll want to have your hack at lvl 3, but they are well worth it. a lvl 3.3, overhealed shaveice is the toughest turret in the game. Add to that the ridiculous slowing effect and the painting of cloaked assassins and gremlins, and you see it's real value. If you see that juiced assassin heading for it, toss a couple of lvl 3 airstrikes around it. Problem solved. not to mention that if you have a 3.3 rocket that can target it, the pros in the effect area will be slowed enough that the rockets can now hammer them mercilessly.

Placement of the shaveice is imortant as well. If you don't mind nursing one constantly (which is a great way to build juice), then put it on a nub with a clear view of the lane. This will slow enemy bots and pros from surprisingly far away if you keep it hacked. My personal favorite is to let one of the rockets next to the moneyball get smoked and put one there. This way I can freeze anyone approaching the moneyball, and slow the hell out of them so my 3.3 rockets, and 2.3 firebase can burn em down before they do any real damage.

Longshots and gapshots

I hardly ever buy longshots. I'll uprade one to a lvl 3 and hack it if there's a lvl 2 already going, but given that they are so easily destroyed and don't really do much that you cant do faster with airstrikes, I'd rather have rockets or shaveice.

I buy gapshots all the time. I try to make sure the annihilator has just been used, or isnt close to being ready. I try to spawn them on a lane that offers the most protected area befreo being exposed to enemy bots and pros. I also try to buy at least 2 at a time. Yes, there is a delay if you're buying on one side, but a support can keep a turret alive with only one gapshot firing at it. It's a losing battle if there's 2 or more. If you have money to burn, and don't feel like wasting it on 10 seconds of juice, you can really mess up a base, clear lanes, and turn the tide by spamming gapshots.

Lvl 2 airstrike IS a good idea. Lvl 3 airstrike is a better idea. lvl 3 airstrikes, dropped all at once will kill most towers unless they are being overhealed at the time. even still, you might get that support, and it'll be close to dead so your team mates can mop it up, if they are paying attention. I get so many kills tossing these UNDER the bridges that snipers, gunners, support, whomever is standing on while they snipe at my shaveice. Sometimes they don't see it coming, sometimes they just don't understand that they COME FROM THE SKY.

Depending on the map, I might buy passive from the start. It's great for pushing bots, and, if you're like me, you want to get juice fast, burn down their turrets, and have a healthy group of bots follow you in. lvl 2 passive helps with this. lvl 3 is nice too, but I hardly ever get to it. The lvl 2 also helps the bots kill pros. An assassin may slice right through a group of bots, but she takes damage. She takes more damage if those bots are boosted.

I talk too much

Thanks for the responses, guys. Just looking for opinions on certain things. I have a few more things I'd like to mention (I promise it's not much).

So, is there any benefit to using a long shot turret over gap shots? I know that gap shots are cheaper, but I was under the impression that long shots were more permanent and did more damage when hacked at level three. Is this not true?

I'm not sure that having your firebase always hacked at level three is vital. Many times I place my firebase down and then forget about it. I leave it so that it creates a makeshift base on the map. Like if you put it behind those walls near the bases in Ammo Mule, or on the top level of Steel Peel. I've found that it's nice for protecting your teammates while still being able to defend your base. That way, you can still assist in pushing and keep your base nice and tidy if something goes wrong. Of course, it's arguable that you should be near the front lines if your team attempts a final push either way... I'm really just wondering if it's a better idea to put that hack on the firebase ALL the time instead of putting it on a long shot (assuming it's worthwhile).

I only buy longshots on VERY rare occassions. If the other team has 2+ snipers, I will buy one and hack it to try and keep them from camping my turrets. Other than that, gapshots all the way baby.