I was reading a bit through the resource post, which is very exciting, but something came to mind, and I thought it might be worth talking about as a separate post, as it seems relevant. Something interesting I foresee is that, if energy stalls and everything is pro-rated, if you have positive mass production as you did in supcom, then you essentially have waste mass, and thus, wasted energy, while in said stall. Regardless if it becomes a mod, or in game, but how about a button that 'normalizes' mass, so that you have no net change of mass, or +0 mass? What I'm thinking, is that say you have an energy stall, and energy is pro-rated. If you have metric craptons of mass production (relative), then any energy that is going to generate extra mass is energy that, while in a stall, would be better put to solving the stall. So, when the button is pressed, mass production is set to have a net gain of 0, thus freeing up energy to stop the stall. Or, alternatively, enough mass production could stop that you instead have a net gain of 0 energy, as opposed to a stall. I would think that this would greatly assist production automation, as well as provide a tool to prevent stalls in general. To take into account where this would have a negative effect, it should be a button instead of automatically. I can imagine a few times where it may hinder, but I can't really explain them. Thoughts? Would this be too easy? Or is it a good idea to include?
i think there should be a distinction drawn between smart toggles on MEX and MFabs (many UI mods did this in SupCom) and actually managing the stall by pausing certain production and producing more power generators. the latter should be handled by the players, the former should be automated.
I think dealing with the economy in real time is not something to be automated away at all. It didn't happen in TA. It didn't happen in SupCom/FA (unmodded) and it shouldn't happen here. If you want it, Mod it.
indeed, there is a huge difference between Automating something, and making decisions easier to implement/act out. Mike
Figures. That's kind of the feeling I was getting from him in that thread. Realistically, it shouldn't be a big problem in the game to manage it with how transparent the mechanics are. And if the economy crashes due to being under attack, then it probably shouldn't be mitigated away. Tis true. Still, efficiency is what I was going for. The most efficient way to handle the economy in a stall is to only stop as much as you need to, and completely turning off stuff isn't going to reach that optimization. Actually, that's the better word. Optimization. I don't want to see things automated, but having options to optimize production are...well, nice. Like, another idea I was thinking of would be to have 2 sliders: production and mass-makers. The sum would be 100%, but would be divided between the sliders. So, instead of everything being mitigated at a flat 50%, you can set just how much is energy going to mexes and how much is going toward production when in a stall. Thus, even if your resources are tanked, you can reach an efficient use of those resources distributed across all platforms, instead of turning one node completely off, which is inherently inefficient. You're still tanked, but it's easier to deal with the problem. On the other hand, it might just be that optimization is what we don't want, to make managing the economy a bit more challenging, which is how it looks like neutrino was going for. It makes sense, after all, as the player should have to deal with the economy if something happens. Not to mention, optimization would affect what would happen if you were under attack, which would potentially be an unintended consequence. Yet, it affects both players 'equally.' So I don't know. I'd love to see it as a mod and see how it changes the game.
Not true. The most efficient way to handle a stall is to get the most metal possible, regardless of your energy failings. The only time this isn't true is when it's going to kill you (but running low on metal will probably kill you anyway, so HAH). Smart eco management is an excellent thing to have. The only real argument from naysayers is "rabble rabbel you ain't taking away my hard mode!". No. Get your difficulty somewhere else. A resource is difficult to manage by making it scarce and high demand, not by peddling in cheap artificial pratfalls. The solution is discovered, just use it and make room for some other hardship.
I agree with this sentiment. It reminds me of the starcraft argument between automation and having the player do all the heavy work. The first click of getting your drones to the crystals is a perfect example: that in itself could be easily automated, to the point that it's obvious that this action is an intentional micro block to separate the 'men from the boys.' It really comes down to two seconds. With the button, the energy (that you actually have, mind you, this isn't some magical energy coming out of thin air) is properly distributed to prevent a stall, otherwise, it's two seconds to find an extractor or three and 'click.' I view this particular point as a micro block, simply because the energy is already there, it's yours, the stall isn't magically being stopped. And if you crash, you crash. This doesn't stop a metal crash, because there's nothing that costs metal to create energy (with the exception of the fixed cost of a generator). And if you actually don't have enough energy, then you will crash. This simply mitigates energy you have into something useful. To me, it's better to balance around the numbers instead of the clicks. If you think this optimizes things too much, decrease the efficiency of energy generators, or increase their efficiency while making them freaking expensive, or give them less health, or make them do damage to structures around them. This way, an attack on power structure will still hurt, but instead of the pain being caused by you not being able to click fast enough, it's caused because the game was balanced properly. And remember, if you're worried that automation will decrease the effectiveness of attacks on economy, remember that turning off the mexes manually has the same effect, meaning that in both circumstances, the attack was ineffective, making the argument moot. Just as a disclaimer, I'll be happy if it isn't in. Very happy. This is a small point of contention I'm just trying to give a good explanation for why it's a good idea to optimize.
I allready did the equations in another thread. http://forums.uberent.com/forums/download/file.php?id=9552
