This may seem like a continuation to alpha/beta forum poll..

...But, what I wanted to know, is unlike SMNC, where access to the game was pretty easy to get for free but access to the forums to see or discuss the game was overly limited and a game nobody could see or get items for in it's younger days wouldn't attract those players and it would lost them outright...

...so unlike SMNC, wouldn't backers technically be deserving to at least have access to read the alpha subforum and beta subforum, even if they were unable to post in them?

It makes sense they shouldn't be allowed to post in them, the aren't playing so they don't have a first-hand experience to gain a reliable personal opinion from.

It doesn't make sense to hide the game development from them if they want to watch. It ruins interest of the game and makes some think that others get much more prior practice than they could, which kills their interest in getting into the game knowing their experience with the game starts off as a rookie among veterans.

Besides, depending on interpetation, backers were technically promised game details as they are publicly released for the game. This means they should technically have access to view alpha and beta. Backers are technically inside the umbrella of NDA, can I get confirmation of this devs?

I feel that backers should have access to post in the backer forum and see all subforums, and alpha members should have ability to post in alphas and beta in beta. Yes, we will see alpha detail posts in backers forum. Still disclosed only for backers. Still seperate from important alpha discussion by alpha players. I don't see problems with backers discussing the game as it becomes available in backers forum, even discussing alpha. I do see problems with the backers that were following the game up until alpha getting cut off on alpha and having to catch up to a great gap in "what is happening with the game" between alpha and game release. Modders for instance, will have no clue what is the state of the game to mod, even if they are a backer.

I honestly, if I was a backer and not an alpha member, which I am an alpha member, would personally say to hell with NDA and would be setting up sources with alpha players in order to stay connected with game development anyway. I wouldn't blame them for intel-prying if alpha progress was closed to backers. Because, as I said, last I remember, NDA was supposed to cover anything outside the backer's forum, and anything inside has no limits on digesting game design progress.

Re: This may seem like a continuation to alpha/beta forum po

Um, if possible, i'd support access to view forums you can't post in. People without alpha could see the game's progress, even though they don't actually play the game. Videos are gonna be made anyway so there's no chance of them not seeing alpha stuff anyway.

Re: This may seem like a continuation to alpha/beta forum po

I said as much within the thread, but it really comes down how much control Uber wants on the info, if there is an NDA like agreement place on the Alpha, obviously on;y testers should be able to view the testing forums, if not, then I'd only allow viewing privileges.

Mike

Re: This may seem like a continuation to alpha/beta forum po

I can see the benefit to having the beta players who weren't in the alpha not exposed to the alpha's metagame, as fresh testers may speed up the balancing process. If everyone assumes the game's played a certain way because that's how the pros played in alpha it'll take longer to find balance issues that aren't focussed on playing that way.

Re: This may seem like a continuation to alpha/beta forum po

Yeah, i think jurgen might have the best argument here, we won't test as much different stuff if it's all public.

Re: This may seem like a continuation to alpha/beta forum po

My only arguement is: Wouldn't backers be a little pissed or take it the wrong way, being suddenly discluded for a period of time.

Again, if it were me, I would sneak info anyway, doesn't matter.

I mean, people are lemmings when it comes to gameplay, not trying anything but whatever everyone else does and assuming it is somehow overpowered so it is the only way to play. However, me and a few others do shoot outside the box, and if we can't make some strategies work we would bring it up balancewise.

I think a lot of game developers don't simply do that. Other game developers make a game, see it only played one way, see a handful of other people use other things and it obviously appears as if playing with a nerf, and don't find that funny as unbalanced. What I think we need to do: Look at things in-game that are actually used, and if it is discarded over using one single thing most the time, change in-game values to balance.

There is a way to modify strength to make everything even. It takes time, but there is a way. It starts with not buffing a shotgun everyone agrees already has too much range (treyarch). Simply turn overly-successful overly-used things down mildly, and turn things that don't have enough strength when used to the best of it's ability up mildly, until equal success is achieved with the application of either.

Re: This may seem like a continuation to alpha/beta forum po

What do you mean Suddenly? They already know if they have Alpha/Beta Access based on their Backer/Pre-Order level. There was already a divide.

I was originally okay with all backers with Viewing permissions to the Alpha/Beta Subforums, but honestly I think it's better off if they not, not only from a prospect of keeping them from forming biases despite not even having played the game, but also because I know that if they can see but not post, there will be threads popping up in the Lounge based on threads seen in the Alpha/Beta Forums, it's likely be less cluttered if when ever a major change or update goes to the alpha/beta, Garat or someone can summarize the change and what brought it about, maybe touch on prior changes and how those panned out, that way Backers still get an idea of what's going on and get complete info in the proper context.

Mike

Re: This may seem like a continuation to alpha/beta forum po

When setting up machines to work. One important thing is: only change one thing at a time!
Imo this should go for balancing as well.

Re: This may seem like a continuation to alpha/beta forum po

I agree with what Jurgen said: Fresh eyes when the alpha becomes a beta are invaluable.

Besides, we already have threads with pre-discussion on live streams that have not happened yet. I can only imagine how much confusion it would cause if beta testers were to start discussions on post in the alpha forum. Of course they would end up in the public forum and after 3 days Neutrino and Garat will have to run hours of Q/A and clearing up misunderstandings on the forum. No, thank you.

I want PA to get finished and Uber working on the game.