The Sniper

Can we please do something about the sniper? I'm very tired of having games with 3 snipers on each side doing nothing but camp the bridges and be annoying.

I think it would aid the situation greatly if the RoF for the rifle was downgraded heavily. Players who are actually accurate enough to achieve a headshot will still be rewarded, whereas those snipers who use the rifle as a spam cannon, will not be.

Currently the rifle with lvl 3 RoF endorsement fires stupid fast, and really removes alot of skill from the class.

Please uber, make it so the sniper actually takes a decent amount of skill.

No flamers please, discuss.

tl;dr Class limits are the fix.

Some people are naturally good at sniper. I'd say the class is fine as is with/without endorsements (same endorsements all classes have access to) because again, as discussed already, snipers don't win games. Annoying maybe, but so is an assassin that doesn't do anything but sneak around and backstab peop.. oh wait, that's what they're supposed to do.

So tired of players that want this class nerfed because they're getting owned all the time from distance. Snipers are precise shooter; what about that do you not understand? This doesn't even warrant a discussion.

This right here is what I'm arguing. What annoys me is that snipers don't need to be precision shooters, because they can just blast you away with body-shots before it even matters.

My argument is that this weapon is way too spammable for something that supposed to be for "precision shooters" Why does something intended to kill with one headshot need a high RoF?

What about that don't you understand?

i agree with OP sniper is so easy to be, especially with rof endorsement, dont even have to be a good aim, and surround yourself with icetraps and you're sorted

It's a game, not a combat simulation of the Army. It's supposed to be fun - for everybody. It's not about getting owned. I get plenty owned by better players with every other class. I don't mind that because I actually have a chance to fight back. Going toe to toe with a good Assassin, that can be fun! Getting one-shotted from a position you can't get to - not so much.

I'm not even arguing that the Sniper is imba. It depends on your point of view. If you consider that they usually do nothing for their team they might even be balanced to a certain extent. (I'm still thinking quick-scoping needs a nerf!) The problem is that one Sniper makes the game less fun for 6 people. In my book that's enough to do revisit the concept.

In my opinion MNC would be more fun without him.

the sniper is one of the best classes, he can do good from far away (steel peel for example lets camp base and then juice and get 40+ kills a game) he can gain juice quickly and easily from bots, AoE bullets, his grapple is incredible and traps, i just wish they had a way to fix the spawn camping snipers.

You know... I see a lot of people saying snipers doesn't help their team the least... A bad sniper does NOT, that's true. But as you so kindly stated earlier, getting shot from a position out of your reach when you're in a toe to toe duel with another class, is exactly what we do. We are killstealers and saviors at the same time. :mrgreen: I spot an assassin face stabbing someone, fire a round or two and he's dead and that enemy assassins victim is hopefully still alive and will be grateful.

See we make it dangerous to go certain routes, on Steel Peelz there is a side path that nobody uses to get out to the arena, just to get into the base and that immediately puts you in our scopes see? The best way to counter a sniper is to be a sniper yourself, if you have no competent snipers to take out other snipers then ... Ow?

Assassins are a pain once in a while, but since you can just stack an armor endorsement, get face stabbed and grapple away they're less of a hazzle than they should be.

The Sniper is a class that requires a certain ability to track your target accurately throug hthe scope, not everyone is that good at tracking a constantly moving target and those who are moderately good at it are rewarded for playing snipers in many other games. No matter what game you pick, a sniper rifle is always a requirement for that game and for some reason (I wonder why?) they always get bashed when they get a kill.

Point:
A sniper makes it dangerous for the other team to travel certain path's, which they do anyways despite knowing the danger and get's themselves killed. A smart person would not be so bloody predictable and walk a different path, in every map there is more than one path, use the third slowest path to your advantage because that path is often guarded by a big fat steel tunnel.

This is how snipers assist the theme, not by pushing that's the tank/gunner/assaults job, but to clear the area of threats so that your pushers can do their job in peace, only thing we can't see are assassins and a good sniper can even guess their movepath and fire a random shot there to hopefully score a hit which will quite amusingly trigger a few "WTF HAXXXXX0R!!!" moments.

your point is stupid tbh, there are normally two main paths to the base, if the team have two snipers these two paths are covered, yes some maps have a couple of "back entrances" but they normally lead you straight to the base where you have to deal with turrets and a constant stream of bots along with respawning pros, also you are not escorting your bots properly doing this. Other maps pretty much have two routes to the base, yet again if have two snipers not much you can do, take the sniper being surrounded by ice traps then even assassins are pretty much useless.

I understand that you are defending your class but the truth is snipers are not really needed in this game and make the game dull and boring, also saying best counter to a sniper is a sniper, whilst being true this will lead to servers full of snipers, and as we all know games that end like this are the most boring games in the world to play a great number of the people that play it.

The biggest problem is grenade III arena, where a sniper on top of one lane can basically shoot anywhere on the map, including the other lane, and protect himself completely with 3 ice traps

is that the ciircular map? (sorry never remember names) if so yeah that is the worst one for it, also with 3 snipers, one on each lane surrounded by ice traps, and one at front of their spawn there is pretty much nothing you can do

Yes, some bases do have back entrances and these are the entrances you should use as an Exit to get behind the snipers, specifically thinking about the map Steel Peelz now. If you use it as an exit you will have a much shorter route to get to the snipers, and some snipers also like to use that place as an ice trap base and that's pretty useless against an assault.

No but you don't have to carry the burden of escorting the bots on your own, let others take the side-path and you're all set, just remember to communicate as the voice chat pretty much works as far as I can tell.

Now you're just being unfair, you're making the assassins seem useless whilst they are our greatest enemy and cause of distraction. A sniper can only camp for as long as he is remained in peace, if you disturb him he will eventually move. Down him once, have an assassin constantly gank him once he tries to set up the minefield again and he's neutralized. Unless you want an assault to do it cause let me tell you that's even more effective.

Nice observation there!

I beg you differ... As you said snipers annoy the hell out of you and you don't like being killed just outside of spawn, if you didn't get killed and had a chance to fight back wouldn't the snipers team have a much harder job defending their moneyball? Just saying...

Pshhh... I have lots of fun. My teammates too I bet as they rarely have any snipers sniping me/or them. :mrgreen:

... I guess you didn't experience the 2-4 assassins on the server did you? I have rarely been in a server with more than 1-2 snipers and that's because they always get backstabbed by sins, possibly because I am an EU player but ohwell...

You sound like you're just whining you know... The snipers that kill you are doing their job and you can't do anything about it because the teams are unbalanced or nobody wants to go Sniper or Sin to make it their job to dispose of the snipers, if you don't like that classes ask if someone can...

Snipers are the threat you make them, leave them in peace and you're pretty much screwed if the sniper has a very good ability to go tracking pro's HEADS. Leave them constantly disturbed and bothered and they won't have time to do much. Assassins are exceptional choices for this as their shuriken gun HURTS if it hits, and their bunny hopping is NOT easy to track up close. If he throws Flak, change position but always keep him pinned.

General tips that makes me pissed off as a sniper player, and thrilled as a sin player.

Point understood, again, with class limits, your issue with snipers will likely be moot. Quake's railgun was more OP than this friggin sniper rifle and no one complained about it back then. This however, is the type of complaining that my 6 year old could appreciate; he does it all the time when he doesn't get his way. :-D

See ya in the MNC arena!

All Im calling for is to lower the RoF for the rifle. This wont hurt snipers that can actually aim, and will disallow noobs to spam in order to get kills. Thats all.

I disagree. Reducing rof will effect kill rate of bots and turrets. Snipers won't bother to help push. It'll promote camping style snipers. The best snipers I've seen move forward with the team instead of sitting back.

And what is so bad about allowing average snipers to be effective? They will of course rely on bodyshots to get kills. It takes quite a few bodyshots to kill a player. If you let him bodyshot you so many times, you deserve to be killed. Every other class can be effectively played by a noob, why must sniper only be viable if you're pro? I've only seen 1-2 of these pro snipers that can reliably headshot.

for all the people looking for a counter to a sniper, assault or a smart assassin and the side routes are completely useless to talk about, you have up to 3 traps to block paths, the sniper is a pain and 90% of them camp their base and don't kill a single bot.....and don't even talk about precision if you upgrade that sniper to lvl 3

To be honest, in around the 24 hours I've clocked into the game so far, I've seen maybe two or three actual 'good' snipers, ones that make you cry and weep.

The rest weren't that great, or were simply 'there', surprising since I thought I'd see more Snipers and that they'd all be rocking.

nah the snipers in this game like to ignore bots, only go for players and suck at it.....they might get the lucky shot but other then that they're just sittin in their base and if you go near them expect them to run back towards their spawn and sit in their spawn room....it annoys me, if you leave the room shouldn't be able to go back in

Just felt like I needed to throw this out there, seriously... FriedrichPsitalon deserves a medal for this speech! ;D

Anyway in all seriousness...

Tik, you sound like a knowitall, and you probably are a veteran player who played since the game came out or something... but all you do with this post, is put all the newbies together with the veterans and call us all useless due to the new players performance... New players have still yet to know the value of teamwork and are just experiencing the game and for all you know they could be casual gamers who are just having fun their own way experimenting with classes. You are DIRECTLY bashing people who enjoys playing sniper, and they might think they're doing decently, such as myself. I'm not really a veteran, still a newbie, but I catch up quickly and do all the things you say we aren't doing, and speak of it as if it's definite facts that we never do what YOU think we are supposed to do... I don't like that. The only thing you are really saying is that you can't kill snipers and that's because they are SMART and move back when you as a tank/gunner/assault/support get too close. Unless you forgot not everybody is capable of quickscoping and even if they are it's a lot easier to take down a target from afar, what exactly are you expecting from us to go up in your face, give you a hug and wait for you to blow our brains out?

It really just sounds like you need a good Assassin or Assault on your team. An Assassin should be taking care of any huge hinderances to the team. Assassin and Assault can get around the traps pretty easily because they have so many modes of movement and your typical Sniper finds a good perch and stays there. Counter sniping is also viable.

There's ways to deal with them with any class, you just have to utilize the map to your advantage (jump pads that lead to weird places are a good example). If it feels like there's no good way to get to them, then you're probably playing against a good Sniper, which feels like playing against any other class with a good player.

If it feels like it's getting ludicrous, learn Assault or Assassin. They can farm snipers all day.

Here is a list of ways around snipers for all classes off of the top of my head:

Assault: Fly around the traps and have your way with the sniper.
Assassin: Assassinate the sniper. Grenade jump is awesome. Harassing them with shurikens when they are not looking at you makes their job harder.
Support: Air Strike and lock down their area with your turret. Or hack a long shot turret, make standing still impossible.
Gunner: Approach from weird angles, deploy (Deploy 3 is great if they've been that much of a problem) and have your way with them. You don't actually want to fight them up close.
Tank: ROF and Rail Gun for harass. Product grenade at 2 or 3. It actually has a huge range and 3 can basically one shot them if they remain stationary. Weird angles.
Sniper: See where they shot you from? Hit them from across the map out of their line of sight. Make sure to move, because the same thing's about to happen to you.

Getting head shot three times in a row can be frustrating, but the balance is there in your class to take them down. Just be flexible. I hope this is helpful.

I would love to see the ability for statistical data to be compiled on this subject. Actually, I may undertake this task myself by taking screenshots of the scoreboard every round from this point forward (in order to ascertain how frequently each class is used, and how well each class fairs in terms of kills and deaths). Anecdotally, it seems to me that snipers are underplayed and seldom excel. Sometimes I do play against a good sniper, but I play against good players that use other classes as well.

I suspect there is some serious confirmation bias at play here, where people selectively recall those times when a good sniper owned them repeatedly, but forget all those times when the enemy snipers were ineffective.