The Orbital Layer as a System for Information Warfare.

This has been floating around in my head for a little while, and with the current forum mood centered around orbital themes, I guess I've decided to bring it to life. It's still pretty raw, but here goes...


Everyone wants orbital to be interesting, however no one knows how it should be developed. Most of the suggestions seem to turn it into an air/land/sea 2.0. I think any approach in this direction is hindered by the following reasons:

• Attention as a limited resource: assuming a standard 1v1, we already have 3 layers (land/sea/air) filled with a large amount of units. This also has the potential to span to several planets. Adding a 4th layer (orbital) where units will be potentially spammable PA style further divides this attention.

• UI clutter: fixable, but tying into the previous point, more units = more headache.

• Lack of clear interaction between orbital and planet-side layer: I would say this is where orbital suffers most in its current state. It doesn't really do much, and is simply a filler between smashing things on the ground on different planets.

So, what is my idea?

The Orbital Layer as a System for Information Warfare.

Roughly based off what orbital warfare would be like today/ in the not too distant future, I believe this has the potential to integrate orbital into the game, while addressing the above problem-points.

Main points:

• Intel gathering as primary role of orbital.
• Orbital combat as a form of area denial to differentiate it from planet-side combat.
• Heavy use of the "capacitor" to further differentiate it from planet-side combat.
• Strong interaction with, and influence on planet-side combat.

Intel gathering as primary role of orbital:

In the current world, the ability of satellites to gather information on, and behind the enemy lines is unmatched by any other method. I believe this could add interesting dynamics to the game were the following to happen.

• Nerf ground radar. Remove T2 radar completely. T1 radar still exists, but it is very short range. Ground radar now exists (primarily) for the purpose of letting your base defenses utilize their range. Designed to be built in a defensive position with the other defensive buildings. It is not designed as an early warning system against enemy attacks.

• Buff orbital satellites. The two types still remain. Cheap, expendable radar satellite, and a less cheap vision based satellite. Radar satellite is designed as an expendable early warning unit. Vision based satellite is designed for limited mid game use, and strong late game use to find targets of strategic value.

What does this do?
You now have no early warning system. You have to create and maintain one. If you choose to forgo orbital, air scouts are a viable option. If you choose orbital, you will have to check periodically to make sure your satellite network is still intact. If not, you run the risk of being surprised by an attack.

Orbital combat as a form of area denial to differentiate it from planet-side combat.

This point occurred to me once I thought about what would happen in the situation of an orbital combat. After the initial engagements, wreckage would be everywhere in the orbital layer. Moving forces through it would be slow, dangerous, and offer the defending team multiple chances to ambush as they hide in among the debris.

In such a situation, the defender has a clear advantage. However, it is unlikely that PA would implement combat to that level of detail, as it would be in direct contrast to the simple planet-side combat. However, we could simulate something to this effect by giving combat an area denial focus. Rough implementation as follows.

• Units (static or otherwise) with large range, but small line of sight.
• Units with slow movement.

What does this do?

The large range, small line of sight and slow movement will result in more stationary, ambush style scenarios. It will encourage proper use of intel to allow maximum engagement range. Attacking is possible, but it is something to be calculated, and carried out with intel.

It changes the game play of orbital from blob/ ball of death warfare into something more calculated and drawn out, differentiating it from planet-side combat.

Now, this may result in orbital turtling, which is where the next point comes in to play.

Heavy use of the "capacitor" to further differentiate it from planet-side combat.

In order to prevent turtling, and to differentiate orbital combat further, the "capacitor" that we saw introduced with the bombers early beta should be strongly present (does this still even exist? tbh I haven't noticed). Capacitors should have reasonable capacity, but long recharge times. Capacitor based combat will hopefully result in the following:

• Strong alpha strike, followed by greatly reduced DPS. (eg. Think massive salvo of missiles at a single target, and then only one missile at a time after that)
• Encourages the creation of multiple lines of defense, or spaced out sets of units, so that the alpha strike of multiple units is not wasted on a single enemy.
• Allows for the breaking of turtles with a sustained attack (of cheaper expendable units perhaps?)

What does this do?

It serves to further differentiate orbital combat from planetside combat. Orbital combat is encouraged to move away from deathballs (further helped with AOE implementation if needed) and into a slower, more tactical role. This slower role with fewer units can help with the previous point, attention as a limited resource, through the requirement of not having to babysit and micro to the same extent as planetside combat.

Strong interaction with, and influence on planet-side combat.

These ideas alone are not enough to encourage the use of orbital. The biggest point is that players need to be able to assign a value to orbital. What can it do for me? What effect is it having on my game?
While the use of orbital radar as the main source of radar certainly helps, the interaction between the orbital and planetside layer needs to be increased. Suggestions are as follows:

• Replace the ion themed Umbrella with a missile themed defense. Capacitor to prevent an unbreakable turtle situation. Strategic icon for missile launch. Slow missile speed. The increased visibility of the missile with the strategic icon and current smoke trail effects will help highlight that there is something happening in the orbital layer.
• Replace the SXX-1304 pew-pew laser with a slow, low damage, but sustained fire beam (eg. Ion cannon CnC Generals). Large capacitor for sustained fire, but not enough to kill a commander. Will only fire when at full capacitor. When it does fire, it continues until capacitor is fully drained. Is movable during the firing process. This allows for better observation from the player under attack that they are indeed under attack from the orbital layer. Also, looks cool and would be terrifying as hell.

What does this do?

It increases the amount of visual interaction between the planetside and orbital layers. Players will be more aware of the inter-layer abilities.

For further development:
There are many opportunities for further development. I left quite a few out, as this post is already a fairly intimidating block of text. I tried to leave specific points of balance somewhat vague to allow for discussion. Some points that were not addressed are as follows:

• Unit roster of orbital layer.
  • New satellites for orbital only intel?
  • Strong long ranged units vs. small weak units for baiting the strong units
• Removal of deep space radar and replacement with limited coverage radar to detect local orbital untis.
• Interplanetary orbital layer invasion mechanics.
  • capacitor drain on some units when going inter-planet to prevent snipes (SXX?)
• Orbital - planetside invasion mechanics
  • Anti-air satellite? Could be interesting with capacitor mechanics.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

TL;DR

• Intel gathering as primary role of orbital.
• Orbital combat as a form of area denial to differentiate it from planet-side combat.
• Heavy use of the "capacitor" to further differentiate it from planet-side combat.
• Strong interaction with, and influence on planet-side combat.

A lot of great ideas here and I really like your formatting.

I like the idea of making radar the primary reason for controlling the orbital layer. Even if you prefer using air scouts as your primary source of intel, you would still want to control the orbital layer to deny your enemy from gathering intel on you.

I also like the idea of "capacitors" as a way to limit how strong certain units are. When the system was first announced (several months ago) to be used for bombers, there was a forum post illustrating some ways it could be used for other units, and I think the way you described using it fits nicely with the previous ideas: https://forums.uberent.com/threads/expanding-the-energy-as-ammunition-system.53540/

I've thought about posting some more ideas on the capacitor subject, but I'll save that for another thread.

10/10 would read again.

As much as I'm fairly certain the thread title's been used before, this is an excellent idea and looks like it'll solve most of the issues people have with the orbital layer itself. (Although I foresee people complaining about the radar bit)

Lovely idea, hope Uber takes a good look at this.

I very like idea of removing T2 radar (or increase it's costs of building and use) and giving up long range radar ability to orbitals.

Also I think that deep space radar should be better at detecting what stuff are on our orbit as well as early warning system for incoming vessels.

You could have some T2 satellites that supply a ground link with all land based vehicles below them, giving better accuracy or something like that.

Recently I have been further thinking about the problem of establishing a planet-side beachhead in the case that your opponent has total (or almost total) control of a planet.



What do people think about the idea of giving orbital fabbers the ability to construct beachhead defences landside? Perhaps utilizing a capacitor ability to give them a strong (or reasonable) initial attack for a period of time, but ultimately falling to sustained attacks? Specifically thinking in terms of AA turrets to hold out temporarily against air spam.

The intention behind the turret-capacitor idea is to punish the invading player if they fail to sufficiently establish a beachhead with other more permanent structures/ teleporters.



Thoughts, opinions? Would anyone like to see it better explained?

orbital multiunit transports (not dropships because of snipereasons) and aircraftcarriers ... beachhead not even needed
as for op ... i like to keep my pew pew turbolaser ... errr umbrella ...
how dare you want it denied to me

I only suggested the missile defense, because I thought the current animations and potential path to implementation made it a simpler option for highlighting the interaction between the planet-side and orbital layer.

An equivalent solution with the umbrella would be to give it a sustained beam animation when firing. Could also look cool.



As for the multi-transports, I have no issues. However, I feel beachhead assault turrets would make the teleporter-mass army option more viable.

Liked it so much! Great ideas! Hope Uber look at this carefully

I like the idea of having the orbital layer being mainly about intel and nerfing or removing surface based radar. I don't think that the orbital layer needs to interact with the surface layer that much more. I think that the odd laser satellite and establishing a beachhead with powerful orbital transports, unit cannons and teleporters could be enough.
Continuous laser beams or missiles with long smoke tracers would be good for the interaction between the orbital and the surface layer as it raises the visibility of the combat and looks cool in general.
I don't really like the idea of long range orbital units with short LoS as such gameplay usually quickly favours one player as the guy with the most guns quickly kill the enemies units as soon as he spots them where the other player have few options to turn the fight in his favour.

I don't like like the idea of building defences with orbital fabbers as that is too similar to a unit cannon where you can just go inside someones base and start building defences next to their energy plants. Teleporters are built quickly and if you just have some units waiting on the other end you can get whatever initial defence you need quickly anyway.

*Nods head quickly*

building teleporters no matter if transports or not are always viable ... as once you got a foothold on a planet you would be able to send you main planet army through it .... transports would help you with the start of your invasion but are harder in maintaining reinforcements ... a teleporter is like a floodgate with an endless stream of units getting in ...

That was part of the reason why I suggested the capacitor central combat.

Theoretically a large number of enemy units could be baited into wasting their alpha strike on a relative few. Then, with the enemy DPS considerable diminished, any units you have held back from the initial conflict would have a considerable advantage.

Theoretically...

My reasoning for the assault turrets is that it can be difficult to even build a teleporter when the planet is covered with patrolling t2 bombers/ gunships, or it's a small planet/ asteroid.

But yes, this is all theoretical and open to discussion.

Control of these units seems very micro heavy. Like you turn half of them to hold fire so they don't waste their shots on overkill and and a group of units would always waste their first shots on the first seen enemy target unless you holdfire them and perform manual targeting. Would need some refinement either in the UI or in the gamemechanic.

Well this seems like it would turn the game into builder wars as you are basically building turrets faster than the enemy can destroy them wherever the orbital fabbers can safely go.