The Ongoing Balance Game, sort of a poll.

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by thetrophysystem, March 22, 2014.

  1. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    The Score

    Adv. Mex: 103
    Commander: 102
    Laser Turret: 100
    Dox: 99
    Firefly: 99
    Hummingbird: 99
    Adv. Radar Satellite: 99

    everyone is allowed, one per person per build number, to make a post like such:

    Fix:unitX
    Leave:unitY
    Reason-iwant

    you can only list 1 unit under fix and leave, so make it count.

    I will score this on top of this original post in edits. Score is as follows: each unit starts at 100, a fix increases by 1, a leave decreases by 1, the higher numbered items are more supported to be changed, the lower numbered are more popularly believed to be perfect already.

    doesn't prove anything, just a social experiment.
    Last edited: March 26, 2014
    stormingkiwi and vyolin like this.
  2. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    here is my submission:

    fix: adv. mex
    leave: laser turret
    reason: metal could be less abundant. Not sure about placement, or income per mex, but less is a general good direction.

    I will score the first days batch, best for refresh and not to cause sway.
    drz1 likes this.
  3. Nullimus

    Nullimus Well-Known Member

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    Fix the uber cannon. It completely shuts down any T1 assault.
    Lower firing rate, or less range, or less splash. Any one of the three would do.
    stormingkiwi likes this.
  4. brianpurkiss

    brianpurkiss Post Master General

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    Meh. This isn't very telling unless we get everyone involved (and this is a barely visited subforum), and even then, it isn't very telling because I think there's several things that need fixing.

    Advanced metal needs a nerf. Defensive structures need a nerf. And Advanced Air need a nerf.

    Those three are the trifecta. Advanced metal gets rid of expansion. Defensive structures gets rid of basic ground units. Advanced Air completely invalidates all ground units.
  5. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    yeah but, the point was to force people to choose a single one as so it is worth them not mentioning other glaring ones to specifically mention it.

    so, to reiterate, submit in proper format so I can tally it. If all else I'll move this to general or backers forum.
  6. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    fix: adv. mex
    leave: uhh.......um.....what feels cool atm.......uhhh.........think ign, think......bots...too general......uhh......the dox! The dox is cool, could do with cooler effects, sounds and stuff, but overall is a cool robot.

    reason- Try playing a game without using any of the advanced stuff, and see how all the stuff plays out, Aircraft are glass cannons, but still have impact AA is sturdy and massable, but easily dispatched, bots and tanks duel well, and infernos are alright at chewing down bases, combat engineers eat buildings and walls effectively enough, and are great siege units with a cost to attack, boats are fairly decent, torpedoes are deadly and sturdy, but boats are massed well.

    Seriously, anybody reading this, play a game with some mates (Or the AI if you swing that way ;) ) but restrict yourself to T1 and orbital stuff.

    The game is so wikid like this.

    (FYI also try this in SupCom:FAF , no T3 in my opinion makes for a far funner game)
  7. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

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    Sounds like fun if your not allowed build turrets.
    Murcanic likes this.
  8. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    That's something that I am genuinely concerned about as well.

    Is the game even fully playable at T1, or are you forced to tech, or lose the game?

    Like T2 can have better counters to situations, but T1 needs to have a way of countering everything, even if a little more inefficiently.

    (I do feel like combat engineers should be the solution to walls and turrets, but im a anti-AI player, and so find it hard pressed to relax and test in a game against a AI with infinitely fast reactions and micro.....utter monsters)
    stormingkiwi likes this.
  9. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

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    Their range is too short. It is possible to have one behind 3 infernos to reclaim walls but takes so much time. Reclaiming with air is better if possible or overshooting a turret at their turret and hope they don't see.
    igncom1 likes this.
  10. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    Yeah :confused:

    Personally I find infernos a little lack lustre, either in speed or HP to actually fight enemy turrets.
  11. stormingkiwi

    stormingkiwi Post Master General

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    58772:

    Fix: Naval's interaction with shallow and deep water.
    Leave Naval speed at these values.
    Reason I Want: Naval doesn't feel like Naval when it's slower. Naval ships are quite manoeuvrable in open ocean, less so when they approach land. The reason is a lack of manoeuvrability and the largest ships have so much momentum that they have to start slowing down several kilometres away from their destination (alternatively they could provide enough force from the prop that it would rip the ship apart)
    I shouldn't be building any naval unit I like in a very small puddle. Distinction between Brown water and blue water fleets.

    59549'
    Fix Naval speed, too slow
    Leave rushing alone.

    Current patch (63180)


    Fix the UC and the commander.

    Reason


    It has been stated that the commander's UC is for dealing with small numbers of units. An army of 30 units attacking you early game is not a small number of units, especially if you have no military of your own.

    No Leave sorry. I am fully fed up of the disparity between t1 and t2, but I don't know how to reword that so it's a leave.
  12. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    Yeah, I don't like the UC's AOE, and would love to try a TA esque line attack.
    stormingkiwi likes this.
  13. stormingkiwi

    stormingkiwi Post Master General

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    I argue no. T1 spam can be easily handled by a small number of t2 and the commander's UC. Not convinced you are guaranteed to get t1 vehicles into the opponents base before they have their t2 up, and bots are relatively easily handled by the commander's UC. (Clearly related to position of commander, but radar and relatively small area that the commander actually needs to protect - t2 factory, power gens and storage).

    My objection is 5-7 minutes into the game, if you haven't been managing your econ booming/expansion with defending what you have, while your opponent has combat units, that should be a very easy steam roll.


    I think t1 should not be less efficient than t2, that's beginning to fall into "t2 is just a direct upgrade of t1"

    This is how I think vehicles should work.

    Light and Heavy Tank.
    • Same Range (or significantly faster speed for the light tank)
    • Heavy Tank has more health per cost
    • Heavy Tank has more damage per cost.
    1. Similar Role - the tanks are comparable.
    2. It's a single target vs banked targets thing. A single target with a large amount of health can tank more damage than multiple targets with a fraction of the health
    3. Banked targets .Heavy target can engage one target. So it is less effective at engaging multiple targets because of overkill.
    Essentially so you use the heavy tanks to attack single targets with a large amount of health, and light tanks to attack multiple targets with less health. You use heavy tanks to defend against single targets with high amounts of damage, and light tanks to engage multiple targets with smaller amounts of damage.

    I.e. the same cost of heavy tanks will always lose against the same cost of light tanks. The damage from the heavy tank is spread around the units too much, the light tanks focus fire them, and because they're engaging at the same range the heavy tank loses.


    I don't really see the value of having area of effect AA and single target AA. I built 200 AA spinners and 180 AA bots. The AI sent a blob of bombers and gunships at me. The battle resulted in more or less 30 seconds of constant firing, and I eventually won.

    I think with AA, the t1 unit should have the ability to engage multiple targets (but limited) and the t2 units should be harder hitting against single targets (because the t2 units have more health) I really feel that t2 units with AOE that hit harder than t1 AA will just be a direct upgrade.
    vyolin and igncom1 like this.
  14. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    That is what I was thinking was the problem that people have been expressing.

    As to why playing a pure T1 game can or might shed light on what T2 is doing wrong, and what T1 needs to do right in the first place.

    (Also the whole T1 less efficient thing was kinda eluding to what we are asking for in the first place, specialist or alternative T2. Not upgrades.)
    stormingkiwi likes this.
  15. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    lol, this turned into another discussion real quick. But i guess I'll read when i get home? I agree with most said, just not the discussion.
    stormingkiwi and igncom1 like this.
  16. stormingkiwi

    stormingkiwi Post Master General

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    Yep sorry. Back on topic. Any replies I'll shunt into the right threads or ignore
  17. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    so far, I have:

    nullimus: fix commander, leave blank and I'll add if he adds

    trophy: fix adv. Mex, leave 2barrelturret

    ign: fix adv mex, leave dox

    kiwi: fix commander, leave blank will add if amended
    stormingkiwi likes this.
  18. stormingkiwi

    stormingkiwi Post Master General

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    Yep.

    Leave scout planes. They are beautiful and I love them.
  19. stormingkiwi

    stormingkiwi Post Master General

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    Uber cannon gets rid of basic ground units also. No real point going for the commander before you have T2 as it currently is.

    Basic ground units have to therefore avoid the commander, at which point they run into the turrets.

    And I don't particularly like having to play for an extra 10 minutes when I won 10 minutes ago when I caught my opponent without any army/defences to speak of.
  20. Murcanic

    Murcanic Well-Known Member

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    fix: laser turret
    leave: adv. mex
    reason: If T1 becomes playable again then map control will be determined by the one with the better army and flanking tatics forcing the one who techs to early to lose a great deal of metal points and defend against the large T1 presence not only that but once you have the upper hand in T1 and are taking the metal points you are forcing to other player to lose then you can get your own T2 factory up and be fine.

    this worked before and I hope it will be brought back as it was quite enjoyable.

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