What do we envision for the commander throughout the life of a game? Let’s break this up into 2 broad game types: small 1v1 games, and mega battles across large expanses. Clearly, in 1 v 1 games, the commander is front and centre for most of the battle, if not the entire battle, mixing it up with some troops, building forward bases, retreating under heavy fire, etc etc. I think we mostly agree this is a good thing. But what about big games, where experimentals roam the lands and huge armies crash and destroy all they see. Should our humble little commander still be in the thick of it, or is he hidden away in the base, rendering him little more than a building assistant? Of course the only way for this to happen is via uprades, else he is either too powerful early game, or too wimpy late game. So, here’s my vote for upgradable commanders! This is also a good way to differentiate your playstyle, by choosing from a number of options available for upgrading your comm…do you go all out DPS, or build a tank, or resource generator? The old thread on this has died, so here's a new post to get your teeth stuck into!
This is really, really stupid. The old thread has died because the topic has been discussed. If you have anything to add, post in the old thread. This is how we get 100 threads on every single topic, making life harder for the devs.
I hear he is late to the forums anyway. To humor the topic, I don't think in many rts games the "base creation" unit really ever walks out with a gun and tries hand-to-hand combat with the various enemy units. Nonetheless, I wouldn't mind if a commander could build himself new weapons and armor by entering a factory and being upgraded. I wouldn't mind that him new abilities, like as a healer, a gunner, a cannon, a collector, or a build-assistant, as long as it is limited to one or to some balanced limits reguardless. I would actually prefer myself him being upgradeable to where by endgame he could withstand a single sniping hit and survive by the skin of his teeth, or the game be balanced where he can start off able to do that but not be able to rush the enemy base right off the bat and win.
Hmm, i like the upgradeable commanders from Supcom, so if its a vote then my vote would be yes to commander upgrades or atleast some sort of commander customisation.
Commanders worked fine on 10x10 1v1 maps. They were useless on the big maps in the SupCom Model and where just something to snipe to win the game. They became a problem when you got a small map with a 4v4/3v3 scenario.
Thats not realy true for big maps, they build way faster then a engineer, survives aloot more and often had a spot on the front line early game to destroy both hunter groups (small groups for taking out mexes and harrasment, can be just 2 units small in some cases) and bigger groups. Theres a number of upgrades that can be used to make them capable to survive midgame too. Unless its mid-late game and they have large groups that can instantly kill a commander or they have things that can snipe him (for example tml) its a very usefull unit. Army vs army the one using his commander at the front lines will win at the beginning. (The trick to using him is scouting aloot and having a sense of when to withdraw him). A extreme example is a seraphim commander with the nano repair upgrades and upgraded tech suits, he can survive allmost any conflict (ridicules repair rate, unless they have nerfed it by now, it was a while since i played). A fully upgraded seraphim commander is a "35000 HP, 150~200 HP/s regeneration, 800 DPS Chronotron Cannon plus overcharge and area of effect" beast. Another example is a fully upgraded cybran commander, its one of the most damaging units in the game with ~4,200 DPS and is one of the few units that can have both Stealth and Cloaking making it completely undetectable unless its in Omni range.
Hey now, don't be looking at upgraded ACUs in isolation, you also need to consider things like the cost of the upgrades and how long it takes, there is a lot more to it han you make it out to be. Mike
Offcourse its aloot more to it, (but i disagree with the "then you make it out to be", i never tryed to say that you would magicaly have a fully upgraded acu for free). Lets go with some more facts then on the usefullness of commander units, the cybran commanders laser upgrade (the same as the monkey lord use, same damage) costs 1/4 less mass then a monkey lord and builds in 1/6'th of the time. It can be build alooooot earlier then a monkey lord (do note however that it costs aloot more energy then a monkey lord, but it can still be built aloot earlier). A fully upgraded seraphim acu (35000 HP, 150~200 HP/s regeneration, 800 DPS) would be able to survive ~27 seconds, allmost half a minute, (if my math is correct) from the combined attacks of 10 UEF t3 Heavy Assault Bots even if it does nothing at all. But it would also be able to kill 13 t3 Heavy Assault Bots within that time even if you dont use overcharge and only hit one target at a time (it two shots them with its normal attacks), do note that the weapon has a area of effect so it could easily kill more. If you use overcharge it could take down more and even faster. After the battle the seraphim ACU would auto repair to full health in ~4 minutes, even faster if it gets some levels (since one of the level up bonuses is increased regen speed). All commanders have access to the overcharge cannon if you meet the power requirment, it deals a staggering 12,000 damage, thats 4 times that of a UEF T3 Strategic Bomber bomb and he can use it more often, instantly killing most units and doing high damage to experimentals. (The overcharge is however severly gimped against enemy acu's and structures, doing alooooooot less damage). My math on the acu killing tier 3 bots is slightly off since it takes time to change targets, time i havent accounted for. My experience to front line commanders is mostly concerning seraphim and cybran since those are the two factions i know and love. But does it still sound like commanders are useless on big maps?
But by the time you have a fully upgraded commander, you're looking at more of 100+ assault bots and some experimentals and air stuff and junk.
Not realy that much, but i agree that you are looking at a sizeable force. Im not saying that the commander can withstand that alone, or that its a ultimate weapon, or even that it has the power of a experimental. Im just saying that its not a "useless" unit at big maps as stated by Pavese.
This is all assuming and using my experience of Supreme Commander. I do hope that the commander gets an upgrade suite so that its not just a heavily armoured engineer. The good thing about supcom commanders is that you take a big risk by using them as combat units especially lategame, but used properly they can be great. Which is what you want, a risk that has a great outcome if successful. Commanders are greatly used in supcom and i only hope that they are equally if not better than useful in PA. That said i do know that a few guys working on PA worked of supcom so i hope that they see it this way as well.
