The Hate, The Sniper, The Ding!

Discussion in 'Monday Night Combat PC Discussion' started by verden, June 29, 2011.

  1. verden

    verden New Member

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    You almost got me, all of you, almost got me! :D

    After the billion topics on the sniper, I was close to being convinced that sniper is OP, then I used my brain, and tried to actually put some perspective on it from experience.

    First off, I'd say I'm a fairly decent sniper, and I know all of RWM fags also say the sniper is OP, which is because they play with me and Hentai, and Tib at times, so duh...

    Now, if we take a look at the different roles of the classes. Where does the sniper fit in? Oh that's right, at the top as the pro-killer :D
    Now, we all know that winning this game has almost become trivial, seeing as we can always blame it on the team! Instead, we put our focus on the fraggin. I know there's probably a lot of you that would say: "Ney! I go for the win!" Which might be true, but never the less, the majority will always see the topfragger as the best player! And that might make you feel overlooked? :(

    So thus far, we've concluded that the sniper would most likely get all the attention. Aren't we just pissed? Well! More to come!!

    The bastard even has the ability to kill you in one hit!
    I don't always play sniper, but there's always a sniper on the opposite team. I don't actually notice him a lot, and when I do, it's when I kill him. So, am I just amazing at this game?! Or did I stop to think? -.-

    Here's the deal:
    You know the sniper can kill you in one hit, you most likely know the places where his icetraps are, yet all - yes ALL - the players I come across in pubs continuously try to push on me straight in my face, even when they try to flank they're obvious as F...

    How about just taking a second to figure out when and how to strike?
    I believe there are a couple of players that can vouche for me, when I say I'm at least one of the best snipers(in a game with no players, yay!), and when OD plays assault, he plays smart - it pisses me off to a length undescribable - even so, he can harrass and counter me almost all the time.

    So I'm guessing OD is a cheating bastard, 'cause if he's the only one capable of doing something like that, it's either hax, or you people are just terrible.
    I'm not saying you need to get better at the game mechanics, but evidently you simply have a lack of game IQ.

    Advice: Don't cry about the game, if one can do it, all can. (not on me obviously, but as I say, sniper isn't op, verden is.) :D :D :D :D :D
  2. Robbert

    Robbert New Member

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    Let me ask you this: Is there any other class that has the abilty to alter your game so much as the sniper does. Yes, almost any class has a range when you enter that, you are very likly to die, but no, by none of the classes is that range unlimited.

    You say OD can counter you as a assault, but which other class has only one counter? Of course not every class has it as easy against another class, that's logical, but how many times do you get killed by a class other than a assault? Is that right, that you have to play assault to counter a class? Any other class can be countered by multiple classes, only the sniper not.


    ps: if i've said something that's not true, feel free to say that and I'll find another argument.
  3. Vlane

    Vlane New Member

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    Go play gold crit gunner with deploy 3 and snipe people from across the map.

    I can counter him sometimes as a gunner.

    Every class has a counter (with the possible exception of the assault who has a so-so counter) and a class he dominates (more or less at least, support and assassin are the exception).
  4. Robbert

    Robbert New Member

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    So you can kill somebody across the map within 0.5 - 1.0 sec since you've seen them without giving the change to run away? If so, i would really like to try that out.

    So you can sometimes counter him, wow. You walked half a minute for one guy, and you can then kill him. Is there any other class where you've to put so much time in to kill them?

    That's true, but there is no other class who dominates almost everything else, if he sees them. If you are for 2 seconds in his sight, your likely to be dead, at any range.
  5. verden

    verden New Member

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    Classes I've countered snipers with: Gunner, Assault, Sniper and I would say sin because good sins like Vlane and Myst can counter, except I'm a horrible sin, so.. yeah. The tank would have trouble, and the support is obvious, so compared to the others, I don't see the huge difference if you - as I said - use your game IQ and outsmart the foe.

    As a gunner, your trajectory is falling compared to the sniper's that is straight, gold RoF = counter/harrass

    As a gunner, you deal a heal of a lot damage with crit, and as proved by Vlane and especially Myst several times, you can easily sneak up on your target, gold crit =
    devastating counter.

    And my first and favourite gunner: Gold speed, HE'S THE RUNNING BACK! AND HE'S COMING FOR YOU!

    Assault, well yeah, his skills were built to destroy the sniper.

    Sin = if you're not obvious, you're deadly.

    So the only true thing the sniper is a deadly enemy to is the tank, which even if you have experienced tanks isn't all that true!

    Obviously I didn't include the support, I mean... c'mon... support.
  6. Robbert

    Robbert New Member

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    The point i'm trying to make (it's my fault that i'm not saying it clear enough) is that the sniper makes you play different. It makes you not going at a bot lane. When a tank escorts a bot lane, you can kill him, sometimes not as easy, but it can be done. Yes you can kill the sniper too, but then you have to go all the way to where he is, kill him, go to the botlane again before you can do your job.

    Yes you can kill them, but it makes you not playing the objective. And that is why i find that the sniper is OP.


    Maybe that's what the sniper is created for, full area denial, and if so, i would find that a shame.
  7. Vlane

    Vlane New Member

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    You might want to re-read your post and the quoted thing.

    Are you dumb? Serious question.
    Counter doesn't mean "Yeah, that guy, I go strictly for him.".

    Gunner, assault and sniper are slayers so you're point doesn't make sense.
  8. ars0n1st

    ars0n1st Member

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    This speaks volumes of truth. Sniper is OP only if you are seriously brain damaged.

    Most people the whine about sniper and want a nerf play like this: go toward a sniper with him completely aware you are coming, jumppad up into a trap, and get instantly headshot. After repeating this same tactic 4 or 5 times they say, "OMFG sniper is OP and needs a nerf seriously." When not getting stuck in a trap in the exact same place over and over they walk or hover toward the sniper in dead straight line making their head an easy pop. Again after trying this multiple times the crying begins. Lastly, most commonplace for assassins, they lunge and spam grapple on a sniper until they are either shot to pieces or grappled and headshot or if the sniper is lazy upgraded grapple rungout.

    Now for counters.

    Sniper:
    Assault as Verden said. The mobility lets them easily flank and bomb the frail sniper. The grenade launcher gives them the same basic range as a sniper; with the added bonus of being able to hit said sniper over obstacles with the grenade launcher.

    Gunner. Mortar is a nightmare for sniper 2-3 split mortars is a snipers death. Deploy 3 and the minigun are also good as Vlane said. You can always flank the sniper too and squish him, shred him, or bat him to the stands.

    Assassin. While they should ignore you they can take you out with smart planning. Flank, turn off cloak, lunge through trap. Dead sniper.

    Tank. Accurate railgun can kill a sniper as quickly if not quicker than the sniper can kill a tank. Again you can flank and as said best by sensitivepyscho; drop from the sky like a bearded meteor.

    Support. Only real option here is to flank. Maybe if the sniper is really mentally deficient airstrike.

    Sniper. Self explanatory.

    I am well aware all I just said is a bit over simplified; it does require some natural ability to do any of the things I suggested. If you can't learn to think tactically and not just run dead-on at a sniper you are going to die to them. Stop complaining about them just because your classic spray and pray Counter Strike style play doesn't work in MNC.

    I play sniper myself and will attest to the fact that GOOD players are an extreme irritation. Especially good assaults. When they kill me I never see it coming.

    As for other class counters.

    Assault: Gunner(has a better gun), Tank(can close and knock them down), other Assaults(whoever is better wins).
    Support: Every class but assassin and other supports. Support has no range everyone else does. Shotgun 2 hits assassins and the assassin has to be pointblank to grapple so that is a losing proposition.
    Assassin: Every class. Poor assassins. All you do is jump to counter the assassins OHK and they get shredded.
    Sniper: See above list and reasons. Every class. Sniper is great if you see your opponent; not so much if they rip you apart from behind.
    Tank: Assault(more mobile and can deadzone), Gunner(minigun beats jetgun and can slam to negate charge if not squish the tank), and Sniper(big fat slow easy target). I leave out tank because that is usually a who has the better charge.
    Gunner: Tank(railgun is better than mortar/hitscan wins), Sniper(easiest headshot in the game), and Assault(more mobile and with bomb and outshoot gunner: if not spun up assault can simply outshoot the gunner straight up). I leave out Gunner because that is a who spins up/runs the better armor fight and not a true counter.

    tl:dr

    Thanks for true words.
    Every class can counter and is countered by every class; it all depends on how proficient you are at each classes weapons and abilities.

    I edited to fix Robberts quote.
  9. Robbert

    Robbert New Member

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    My point is that the sniper makes you leave the bot lane. Or they kill you, or they shoot at you, miss, and maybe you are able to flee or you have to go after them. It isn't that you can't kill him eventually. It is thay he makes you not go after the bots. THAT is the point.
  10. verden

    verden New Member

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    Doing his job? -.-'

    So to follow your track, you play differently if there's a sniper 'cause you might get dinged. Well, uhm.. what if there is a decent assassin, do you not try to stay aware of her? Or if there's a firebase, does it not alter your gameplay?

    Basically what you want from this game is same different classes with the same skills. Surprise, you need brain to play this game, some more than others.

    The reason people - including you - cry about the sniper, is because it's the one class where you aren't as dependant on game IQ as the other classes, but it's also easier to outsmart if using your skills correctly.

    Basically it doesn't seem like players actually want to enter a head game where prediction is of the greatest value, and honestly that's just too f... bad, 'cause that's what the game's about.
  11. Awpteamoose

    Awpteamoose Active Member

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    I'm brain damaged and terrible at this game and new and don't have any game IQ or ay sort of thought process going on in my small brainless skull filled with pork lard, but I still think sniper is OP. Why? Unlimited effective range one shot kill on anyone except tank that has over 1160 something hp (which is quite an impressive number since it took me 10 minutes to count to).

    Every class has some kind of hard-to-execute one-shot kill (except tank, but most of my charges end in victim being brutally exposed to my facial hair resulting in his death much more often than after any other class skill), but only headshot is so spammable and it's one that's the easiest to pull off (hitscan, no need for prediction if you can aim well enough to doubleclick MNC shortcut on your PC). I see it being balanced for xbox where people use some electroinic hybrid of vaccum cleaner, a cow and deer (not a moose, mind you) antlers that looks like a sex toy to aim, sorry, simulate aiming, but on PC it is overpowered, no, rather out of place, like a buffalo with a hand grenade in japanese bathing area (a hidden reference to L. Spiro, signed: L. Spiro). It breaks the game's flow, all duels consist of skill input from both sides and the one most succesfull wins, but i most cases there's no input from sniper victims (you can't really dodge a hitscan, it travels faster than light itself!). Yes, sniper is counterable, but to counter a sniper you don't consider his possible actions but rather his possible inactions. When you go at a tank, you expect a charge and have a plan to counter it (dodge it, catch up if he runs away with it), you expect a product grenade and have a backup way if it hits you, you expect epic railgun accuracy (not really, that's why I kill people) and have a plan to outdamage it somehow. But when you approach a sniper, even if you try to flank him, you rather hope that he will not look in your directon, when you encounter him you hope he won't headshot you because there's no backup from that. There's no way to encounter sniper without him being able to headshot kill you in the blink of an eye (unless you're a telepathic assault and can read mind through TCP/IP). If you take TF2 as an obvious comparison, when a 300 hp soldier approaches an unscoped sniper he can know, not hope, that sniper might scope and headshot him for 150 and by the time he will try to headshot second time he will be dead.

    This slowly brings me to the second problem. MNC isn't TF2, they both are class-based objective-based cartooney shooters, but MNC plays much more differently. That's why a dramatic ROF nerf won't fit, as well as mechanic of staying in scope to build charge. Sniper is so broken to the point where even a minor nerf might make him severely underpowered and generally useless. One thing for certain, headshot should stay. Somebody just has to pop those bloody melons full of eyeballs (tank railgun headshots FK YEAH). Changes might include specific anti-sniper class stuff like a breakable headshield for a tank (breaking the shield does around 400 damage so you're still actually required to pull two successive headshots to kill) or make a headshot do strictly <max health> on lights, <max health> - 170 on mediums and <max health> - 209 on heavies. Just some random ideas from my top hat.

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    tl;dr
    [​IMG]
    Last edited: June 29, 2011
  12. Vlane

    Vlane New Member

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    Stop whining, you little bitch.
  13. Awpteamoose

    Awpteamoose Active Member

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    Took you 9 minutes to reply. You're getting old and rusty, sweetheart.
  14. Vlane

    Vlane New Member

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    I had to fix a laptop. I'll be faster the next time, I promise.
  15. Myst

    Myst New Member

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    You just reminded me of how much I love you <3
  16. Awpteamoose

    Awpteamoose Active Member

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    You just reminded me of my potatoes on the pan! God, almost got them burned.
  17. Goose

    Goose Active Member

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    You saved me a LOT of time constructing a post. I love you more than anyone, ever...
  18. verden

    verden New Member

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    so, by all you wrote, try reading it again WITHOUT the intention of a sniper that streaks with headshots ALL the time. How many times do you actually miss a tank charge? It's true the sniper has the capability of being the best class in the right hands - FOR PROKILLING! - but in any case, thus far, there is no player that in general headshots all the time. As I wrote - which you're a good example of - you focus on the fragger, not the gamewinner. How about addressing the sin's capability of winning a match almost immediately, Vlane does it, which should make it OP... right, c'mon! From what you write, that's logic! Riiiight.. riiiiight? :D :D :D
  19. Dubblebass

    Dubblebass New Member

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    ...but when I do, I drink Dos Equis.


    Sorry, but that was going through my head while reading the entire thread.

    On topic, I have trouble with snipers as support, but I expect it and I have my time when I catch them running from one snipe location to another...so to me it all balances out.
  20. Vlane

    Vlane New Member

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    Vlane is OP.

    Also, I rarely play sin in pubs. I prefer to rape as a gunner.

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