Tanks shouldn't be snipering

I feel like the Tanks secondary weapon (the railgun) is a sniper rifle just without a scope.

I just feel its a little unfair for a player to have the second most powerful close range combat and the second most powerful long range combat, on top of having the most health in the game.

It evens out because they are very slow and have poor mid-range damage. The rail gun also takes long enough to kill someone that you can almost always hide before the tank kills you.

That's not game balance... Particularly because the tank STILL wins mid range with the rail rifle due to his massive health pool and the ability to 3 shot anyone.

I was actually thinking of this topic earlier when I noticed I hadn't seen a tank use a jet gun for anything more than death blossom for a few days, the damage or rate of fire needs to be toned down, theres no reason the secondary gun of a pro should become his primary because it functions better MOST of the time.

Don't stand out in the open when you know a Tank is playing this way. Always have cover to fall back on. (This seems like good advice for every class, honestly...)

Move around a lot. Seriously, the hit box for the rail gun is like 2 pixels. Except for gunners and other tanks, most classes are skinny enough it's -really- hard to rail gun them mid range and farther away. Shooting at a sniper is like shooting a twig with an airsoft gun from 200 yard away.

I'd love to set people on fire more as a tank, but you crazy people always run away.

TANK WANT CUDDLES!

I am one of those Tanks that use the railgun as my main weapon. It doesn't shoot any further then the Assault's rifle. Also I am able to grapple attack with the left trigger for when they get close to me.

Snipers can easily back out of the railguns range and headshot the slow moving target.

I am surprised no one has complained about the Assaults Grenade launcher. I love taking out turrets from afar with the occasional Pro kill. Maybe people just think it's the long shot firing. lol

The railgun takes THREE SHOTS to kill a Sniper. Yes, it's accurate, but it really isn't that powerful or fast-firing. As soon as anyone sees a Tank firing a railgun at him, he will back into cover.

Also Gunners kill Tanks in like 2 seconds.

Jesus. The tank is the one class I didn't think I'd see threads whining about.

I can't recall being killed by the rail gun, although I've been shot by it a lot...after the first shot, I move....since the tank is slower, this isn't a problem.

On a sarcastic note: Oh my god! That gun fires slowly and does good damage, it must be like a sniper rifle! But it is not being used by a sniper, so we must, of course, nerf it!.

You gotta be kiddin' me!

Again saying "YOU CAN AVOID IT!" is a dumb argument. Thats like saying if the firebase had range from one end of the map to the other, it'd be balanced cause "you can take cover". This allows a tank, acting as a sniper to hold down choke points with a rail rifle, pretty much by himself because you have to spend all your advancement "taking cover". You can sneak up, take him out, but by the time you get back in a pushing position he's already set back up. Admitedly only 3 of the 4 maps can suffer from this kind of problem...

First of all, true choke points are not prevalent in MNC. Every area has multiple paths to getting to it, including from above or below. Second, the railgun is weak and slow firing, so it isn't even GOOD at holding down choke points.

I don't even understand this argument. You're saying that the Tank is good at something. Great. He's not good at everything. He's a big target, so things like Bombs and Airstrikes are easier to land, and the Gunner's dual minigun is not something he wants pointed at him, especially since he's slow. The Sniper is better at sniping than the Tank is, so you can use Snipers to take "sniper Tanks" out.

Except on steelpeel where you can target from one base, the the other, giving you vision of alternate routes, and ammo mule. And if a tank is actually using his rail gun long distance you won't be able to stick him with a grenade/airstrike, same deal with using the dual minigun. So basically we're down to "snipe him with a sniper" meaning theres only one REAL effecient counter to this, which is NOT balanced. You shouldn't have to have a sniper in reserves in the off chance the opposing team chooses to use a 3 tank snipe strategy.

Im really confused about the "deals no damage/is slow firing" argument too. It deals quite a decent amount of damage, 3 shotting squishy classes, 4 shotting things other than tanks without armor buffs. and a gold rate of fire makes it shoot quite quickly.

also when a guide can list the rail gun as his primary you'd figure there might be a problem with it.

That guide does not the railgun as the primary weapon. It makes no distinction between the two.

The squishy classes in this game are Sniper and Assassin. You will never ever ever get 3 shots off against a competent Assassin, and Snipers will simply move into cover when they get hit and then come out and countersnipe you.

If he's sitting there on Steel Peel camping with his railgun, then don't freaking stand in the open to get shot. On Steel Peel, you can also use the upper level to get to him and drop an Airstrike or Bomb, or even just go down there as a Gunner and rip him to pieces. With a gold RoF endorsement, you're sacrificing armor, which means your Assassin can and should backstab him without being worried about getting Death Blossomed and slash him one or two more times for the kill.

Ammo Mule has no choke points. It's probably the most open map of all.

Even if sniping were the only counter, why exactly is that "NOT" balanced? It's a really really good counter, as Tanks are really slow and have very large heads.

I don't think you understand game balance. Every strategy has a counter, and just because a strategy has only one counter doesn't mean that it's overpowered. The sniper rifle is better at sniping than the railgun. USE THAT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE. If the other team is pissing you off, stop being one of those scrubs who plays Assassin while there are four other Assassins on your team and do something different.

The railgun does great damage and With gold RoF(Which I bring) can be a very handy weapon, but with how small other classes are it is a real challenge to hit other targets. Assaults should have NO problem with this. Stay at mid range(close enough for your gun to do good damage, but far enough that the Jet Gun won't touch you) If you let him beat you at this close range with a Rail Gun, you should stop playing.

All 5 of the other classes secondaries are situational tools. The Tanks railgun however is so good most players run around with that out instead of the Jet Engine.

Having the Tanks secondary be so much more useful in comparison to the other 5 classes secondaries is a bit uneven in my opinion.

How is the railgun not a "situational tool?" That's a silly claim to make. You use it when you're at long range. You're sacrificing your normally amazing short-range capabilities (Death Blossom) in order to provide you with more range.

This guy only plays assault apparently. Let your gunner, tank, and sniper teammates do their jobs and take out the tank.

I really think it's amusing you make all these assumptions about what I play and my play ability.

Perhaps you can explain game balance to me since I don't seem to "get it". As far as I was aware and have been informed in my life as a gamer, game balance means not having to take existential steps to avoid a specific strategy because it can only be countered by one strategy. For example, lets say that there was a strategy where if you were against it, and didn't have 5 assassins, you were guaranteed to lose no matter what. Is this balanced? No. If you plan for this strategy and it DOESN'T come, then you lose for having 5 assassins, if you don't plan for it and it does come you lose because you're ill prepared. Game balance means having more than 1 option to go against a particular strategy.

Please note: a secondary weapon should be just that, secondary. Not a weapon you hold out 95% of the time because it does better than your primary weapon in all situations but were the enemy has put themselves out of place.

Let me put your logic into a more compact example.

Let's say I want to play Sniper. I like running around in the open in the middle of a lane to kill things with my SMG. However, every time I do it, I get grappled by an Assassin! That's not fair! I shouldn't HAVE to set down traps or stay back to snipe or use a Gold Armor endorsement! I just want to kill her with my SMG!

In the real world, that's not how things work, champ.

This is completely false.

Game balance is this: Every strategy must be counterable by another strategy.

That's it.

I think part of the problem with you is that you're assuming that MNC is a game completely based on individual skill. It most definitely is not. This is a TEAM game. The game is balanced for TEAMS, not CLASSES. You rely on your team to take care of things you can't. Every class is good against certain other classes, but bad against some others. If you don't have a Sniper on your team to take out sniping Tanks, tough ****. You should've adapted.

Not every class needs to be able to take out every other class. But you have six slots in a Monday Night Combat team, and there are six player types. If they decide to go 3-tank sniping, then switch to a Sniper, score some headshots, and show them who's boss. Hell, perfectly balanced teams with one of each class work fine.

Also, you're exaggerating your examples. First of all, there is no strategy that requires 5 Assassins to counter. Secondly, you can view the enemy team comp by pressing Back to look at the scoreboard, so you'll get a rough idea of what they'll be doing. Third, you can switch classes on death. Yes, you gimp yourself slightly by switching, but you've also just gained a massive tactical advantage on the other team because now you're able to counter their team. They will die to you repeatedly. If they're smart, THEY'RE going to have to switch classes to deal with you, which makes them gimp themselves.

Additionally, why is it YOUR job to determine what the purpose of a secondary weapon is? That's the developers' role, not yours. As far as I can see, the only reason a primary weapon is called a primary weapon is that you spawn while holding it. That's it. I've seen plenty of Supports do well without using the Hurt/Heal Gun and plenty of Assaults focusing on their Grenade Launchers. Does that make those two weapons imbalanced? (Hint: The answer starts with "n" and rhymes with hoe.)

In this case, assuming the other players have half a brain, a railgun is good for hitting a target once or twice from far away before they duck behind a wall. You can also pick off weakened bots and tickle turrets. Great. The Jet Gun clears lanes and destroys anyone who comes close. Either way, you suck at mid-range, where the Assault and Gunner thrive. If you're going to complain about camping, then complain about the Sniper, too.

Finally, I'd like to point out that adapting to the enemy's strategy is a fundamental concept for most competitive RTS games with multiple layers of strategy. If you can't adapt to your opponent's build, you will fail. Monday Night Combat is a shooter with more complexity than most other shooters. Adapt or die. That's how a lot of other competitive games work, and MNC is no different.

Alright, first of all the rail gun isn't nearly as effective as a Sniper because nobody can have good enough accuracy without a scope to use it like a sniper. Though the railgun is a useful tool at long ranges, if you get killed by it at sniper range, you clearly haven't made the effort to avoid it. Also, the tank has only one useful skill (imo but that's probably a whole different argument) and that's jet charge. He needs the added mid-long range to compensate.

Thank you, this is my point. I would have nothing to say if the tanks main weapon was the railgun by default and they had the Jet Engine as their secondary.

As it is now the tank uses the secondary weapon (railgun) more than the primary (Jet Engine). This is unlike any of the other 5 classes in the game. To me this seems to be uneven.