Super Units: The Linebreaker

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by bmb, February 12, 2014.

  1. bmb

    bmb Well-Known Member

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    Alright so I think that super units are actually needed. A solid defense can ward off almost any ground attack, which is great in itself I think, it means static defences have some use. But because they are able to pick off even forces of hundreds of tanks it's somewhat OP. And I realize now that experimentals were useful for breaking such a line in supcom.

    Now I know it's probably not in the spirit of the game, but I think it is possible to capture the function of a super unit without going all in. In fact part of its specification is that it is less efficient to build for DPS than basic units. Its main function is tanking damage and providing enough firepower to break down defences.

    The main advantage of such a unit even if it is far more expensive to build for the firepower is that with a lot of HP it is resistant to whittling down that an army would succumb to. It maintains full firepower until it is destroyed. The other advantage is that it can focus its firepower into something that can overpower individual defences but is not so useful against swarms of units.

    This is how a super unit should be balanced for breaking through defensive lines. It would not be much use for engaging an army, unlike experimentals in supcom. Someone who builds only these units instead of an army would be vastly outclassed in an open fight.
  2. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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  3. cyclopsis

    cyclopsis Member

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    Or you can choose one of the dozen things already available to break a defensive line, such as:

    -Flanking
    -Combined forces.
    -Long range naval.
    -Nukes.
    -Arty creep.

    It's not that a super/T3 unit is a bad thing, but a defensive line is not impossible to penetrate. It's supposed to be hard, or else there would be no point in building them.
    zweistein000 likes this.
  4. bmb

    bmb Well-Known Member

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    Well it's just cooler to use a big death machine than it is to whittle away things that are outside of your vision.
  5. bobucles

    bobucles Post Master General

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    That's more an issue with stationary artillery than with any lack of super units.
  6. BulletMagnet

    BulletMagnet Post Master General

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    When you have something that doesn't benefit the defence more than it benefits the offence, feel free to post it.

    Any weapon you build, can also be built by the defender.

    Now couple that with the already strong defence and you've just made the problem worse, not better.

    As @bobucles said, the issue is with stationary artillery.
  7. bmb

    bmb Well-Known Member

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    A good linebreaker unit would not be useful against an invading army. Try re reading my post.
  8. Nayzablade

    Nayzablade Active Member

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    I believe your line breaker might be a sneaky, sneaky roach bomb or 4000 :)
  9. BulletMagnet

    BulletMagnet Post Master General

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    I did.

    I maintain my position. I have not seen any descriptions of a unit that is good at breaking lines, but not also good at defending them.
  10. bmb

    bmb Well-Known Member

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    Whether or not you have seen it does not change that I have provided one.
  11. BulletMagnet

    BulletMagnet Post Master General

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    Let me spell it out for you;

    How do you intend on accounting for this?
  12. Methlodis

    Methlodis Active Member

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    The new Vangaurd units (or whatever the advance heavy armour-small attack range tanks are called) will basically be line breakers. From what we've seen during the uber playtests recently 5 of the can tank the damage, destroy walls (and they're wrecks) in seconds, and just before they die take out any close by turrets.

    With formations that choose unit position, these takes can break a line and get all the bots to be able to rush past the line straight into the base. This is what you are talking about, but in conjunction with the army rather than a single unit.

    This game shouldn't be about what is a great unit, but you should think that super units are well make army blobs that can be assembled/designed to do certain tasks. Think of small units than when working together can do something super.

    Maybe another version of this is use heavey armoured tanks front, combat fabs behind, then grab groups of mobile artillery and sniper bots to take out the defenses while the front takes all turret damage.
  13. bmb

    bmb Well-Known Member

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    You see the principle in action in FA in the form of the Percival. It absolutely murders base defences but it cannot deal so well with swarms of T2. T1 isn't exactly balanced so we won't consider that.
  14. bobucles

    bobucles Post Master General

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    Anything with a big death explosion is REALLY bad to put inside your base.

    Slow favors defensive roles where the enemy is forced to engage. Friendly fire encourages offense where reckless damage is more likely to hit the enemy. Blowing up favors offense. Transports and movement abilities favor offense.
    broadsideet likes this.
  15. hearmyvoice

    hearmyvoice Active Member

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    It could release something like Ythotha's Othuy (FA)when destroyed.
  16. bobucles

    bobucles Post Master General

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    That's a possibility. Unfortunately a gimmick bomb only works for one class of unit. Unit cannons and transports can turn anything to offense.
    igncom1 likes this.

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