Shouldn't every class do equal damage to the Moneyball?

While every class has its pros and cons, shouldn't their potential contribution be the same when it comes to the main objective of the game? It seems like every class should be able to inflict an equal amount of damage to the Moneyball as any other class. Thoughts?

Class-based = different roles.

There are classes that are better at killing bots. Others that are better at killing pros. Some that are better at destroying base defense.

So it makes sense that some would be better at killing the moneyball.

I agree. Billy Roob had some other good ideas. Close range weapons should do more damage than long range weapons, and the assault's bomb should do far less damage.

My argument is that killing bots, pros, and turrents all contribute to the main goal, which is killing the Moneyball. It makes sense that some classes would be better than others at the contributing factors. However, none of those 3 contributing factors can win the game alone. The 1 and only thing that can win you the game is killing the Moneyball. That's the logic behind my argument.

It sounds like a good idea yet i feel like the way they have it set up adds more of a dynamic to the game.

I understand your logic, but from a game design/balance standpoint you can't remove cracking base defenses, removing defending pros, and escorting bots from the main goal. Its all part of the roles in this game. If the pro that is best at cracking base defenses is also as good as the best at killing the moneyball, then why run anything else for offense?

Compartmentalizing the roles into each class is a great way to force players to work together. For example: the Assault removes pros from the lanes, Assassins/Tanks escort bots. Why is it bad that Gunner/Assassin takes down turrets, then the Assault hurts the moneyball?

edit: @Zander, you and PeachyPony destroyed me last night. It was good to come up against better competition. Good games.

What really prompted this thread was a game I played about an hour ago. A Gunner and I (Assassin) were taking down the enemy's Moneyball while a lone Support was at ours. And that Support actually managed to outdamage us. Our ball also fell a couple seconds AFTER the enemy's did.

Even if the damage isn't equal, shouldn't it at least be close? A Support outdamaging a Gunner and Assassin seems a bit ridiculous.

can deff see where that would make you mad, but it does add the dynamic of having teamates that know how to CC, which is very rare, Maybe equal damage would fit into a hradcor game mode or something.


obi- They were deff goodgames man.

I agree with the sentiment but I'm not sure there is a good way to level the playing field for damage on the ball.


It's a risk, range, and crowd control situation. (***This post is all just my opinion ***)
How would you equalize it? There are too many ways of dealing damage to equalize:

The support doesn't have a long range damager like all the other classes, so that is already unfair as he has to risk life and limb no matter what by getting in close.

But even the classes that do have long range attacks are not all on the same playing field. The sniper rifle, railgun, and shurikens pass through their targets and will hit the ball even when obstructions pop up, where the mortars and grenades can be blocked and shoot in an arc and thus are not truly unlimited in the range at which they can hit the ball due to the glass and floors around the ball.

The tank and gunner can deploy and eliminate the defense of crowd control. Would it be fair for them to do the same amount of damage as the other classes while having one less defense to worry about?

The FAF (fire and forget) skills. Not everyone has a bomb, flak, airstrikes, or a firebase. Just having those gives , just as an example, a sniper who pops around the corner and throws flak on the ball an advantage over the gunner or assassin who at least have to sustain line of sight with the ball.

And of course don't forget the endorsement differences. Rate of fire and skill regen in particular affect the weapon damage output and how often damaging skills can be used. And other endorsements such as juice accuracy and clipsize and all of that come in to play.




To use your example of a support damaging vs an assassin and gunner:

First, I'm not sure a support should out damage a gunner AND assassin (all other things equal) but a support with a shotgun, beating each individually i would agree with. That is a personal opinion because I feel the support:

-Lacks sprint and cloak. Making it that much harder for the pro to cross the map to get to the enemy moneyball.

- Has a larger profile and is easier to shoot and see than even the uncloaked assassin.

- Has to get much closer and expose himself more than the shurikens, minigun, or mortar would require.

- Lacks the gunner's deploy skill to avoid crowd control.

- again, this is with the shotgun where he is not healing himself while doing damage.

Considering what they have to make up for just to be in there on the moneyball and staying alive, I think the support shotgun outdamaging an individual assassin or gunner makes sense.





So I know I have been meandering here with my reasoning so I will reiterate the point. There are so many factors that have to be taken into account to determine a class's "advantages" in damaging the ball that I think we can't really make such a sweeping generalization about "all the classes should do the same damage to the moneyball".

The only way I know to approach that goal is to give everyone the same weapons, endorsements, mobility, and skills. But at that point, this game would be exceedingly boring.


TL;DR: A slight tweak here or there on who does what kind of damage is warranted but just the principal of everyone doing "equal" damage, to pros or moneyball, is contrary to game mechanics in a class based game.

I believe different damages to the moneyball contribute to depth. It makes multiple classes more required over just one. Some classes are good against bots, some are good agsint turrets, some are good against other pros, and some are "more of a moneyball kind of guy" .

However, I would agree that some classes have TOO MUCH of a gap in moneyball damage. The assault's grenades should do 20% less damage, as well as sticky bombs.

Still, the classes that do great damage do so for a reason. The classes that do poor damage do so for a reason. To be honest, it seems like the heavy classes have the least damage, and the mediums have the most. Overall, it's fine now but it would be even better if the juiced assault did around the same damage as a juiced support, and his bombs did half damage (which is still the best of any non-juiced class, especially with lvl3 and skillpill).

Also, then people can stop complaining that the assault is overpowered. He isn't undefeatable, but he probably squeezes in more than he should be able to.

I am guessing the support was Juiced and the gunner and assassin were not bursting full of the juices.

I could agree with damage being equal on the ball but I can live without it.

I have dealt out as much Juice-shotgun MB death as I have recieved, though I still find it a bit annoying how quickly a it can happen.

All 3 of us juiced. Obviously any juiced Pro would outdamage 2 non juiced Pros.

Yeah, juiced shotgun is a little crazy, but you have to be pretty much touching the ball.

I would argue that the support is the hardest class to get to the moneybag because of low mobility and survivability. And can single-handedly destroy the moneyball with juice. Which could be nerved a bit.

But If the support did the same damage as an assassin who could easily make it to the moneyball undetected, would be a bigger problem
.

What about the Assault? He can also singlehandedly destroy the Moneyball with juice.

Making the argument for survivability and mobility, he should be nerffed as well,
by bringing down the bomb damage a lot (the fact that you can plant the bomb then wait for the shields to go up then BOOM 30 more seconds and the constant spawning). While the grenade launcher could use a slight nerf, seeing as how easy it to get off shots from long range.

PS. I am drinking so "don't flame me bro"
PSS I hate auto correct spelling

I personally believe they should do closer to equal damage to the moneyball.

However, the support needs a very small nerf against the moneyball, maybe 15% max, and the assault could use 25% on his juiced grenades and bomb.

Other than that, some classes probably could use a bit more kick over others. It could just be a little less of a gap than it currently is.

I've been thinking similarly. A team of varied classes versus a team with say, 3 Assaults, will most likely lose in overtime. (Assuming at least 2 of them know what they're doing.) If they all get one bomb on there, that's half the Mb health, and if even one is juiced, that's game. Thoughts on this?

So you're making the argument that he needs to be nerfed. I'm thinking all damage towards the money should be even.