Should the unit cannon be a bit cheaper?

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by philoscience, January 6, 2015.

  1. philoscience

    philoscience Post Master General

    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    1,048
    Been playing a lot with the unit cannon, both on single planet and multiplanet systems. It really is an amazing tool for breaking stalemates. But i'm gradually getting to the view that I think it should be a bit cheaper. Right now building unit cannons can tank even a very robust economy and it is reserved almost exclusively for end-game measures. I realize that is by design but I could see there being a reduction in cost to around 2x the cost of a T2 factory. I think the unit build rates (fast but expensive) are pretty good right now, but the initial cost is a bit too high.

    Alternatively I might like to see a T1 and T2 unit cannon. T2 could be exactly as it is now, and a t1 unit cannon could cost slightly more than an orbital platform (maybe 1.5-2x more) and only build t1 units and no fabricators. This would make early and mid-game orbital much more dynamic.

    Lastly, I think the unit cannon should probably not be able to build boom bots. It feels very cheesy to me as you can basically point and click anywhere in the universe and guarantee that structure or unit blob is insta-gibbed, unless they happen to have umbrellas right there. The booms build so fast you can basically do this every 10 seconds.
    Last edited: January 6, 2015
  2. squishypon3

    squishypon3 Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,971
    Likes Received:
    4,356
    All of T2 should be a "bit cheaper" >.>
  3. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,050
    Likes Received:
    2,874
    This. No offense, but if it can fire a boom, then doesn't that just make it artillery? Derp. I mean, the spiderbot isn't very much bigger than a holkins shell, the umbrella can somehow shoot it when it can't shoot a holkins shell...

    ...almost like the umbrella should be a "point defense laser".
    radongog and philoscience like this.
  4. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

    Messages:
    12,074
    Likes Received:
    16,221
    Cheaper and less powerful. So endgame you just build more of them while midgame you can already start the fun.
    Or the t1/t2 variants, that also sounds like an interesting idea.
    philoscience likes this.
  5. philoscience

    philoscience Post Master General

    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    1,048
  6. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

    Messages:
    4,081
    Likes Received:
    3,149
    I'm not sure yet but that's definitely the first step
    Last edited: January 6, 2015
    philoscience likes this.
  7. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

    Messages:
    4,844
    Likes Received:
    1,818
    i rather have only one type of unitcannon ..
  8. bengeocth

    bengeocth Post Master General

    Messages:
    1,285
    Likes Received:
    657
    I think the unit cannon should be able to build more than just one type of t2 unit (excluding fabbers)


    If you're going to limit it so much, why not let it shoot aircraft too?
  9. burntcustard

    burntcustard Post Master General

    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    1,312
    Disagree.

    There are no T3 or "experimentals" in this game, so as I've said many times before, I like big scary T2 units and structures.

    Disagree.

    Firing Boom Bots is hilarious.

    Disagree.

    I don't think it should be able to fire tanks at all to be honest. It would clear up the UI (not so important compared to gameplay), and would just.. make sense to me. That is of course if the Stinger gets re-added so that there's still some AA it can fire.

    ... and then the tech tree could be like:

    T1 bots (T2 bots | unit cannon)
    T1 air (T2 planes | T2 gunships & transports)
    T1 vehicles (T2 vehicles | hovertanks?)
    T1 naval (T2 boats | T2 subs?)

    A man can dream.
    Last edited: January 9, 2015
  10. squishypon3

    squishypon3 Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,971
    Likes Received:
    4,356
    There can be big scary t2, but the majority shouldn't. Right now T2 rarely shows up in 1v1, I mean very rarely. Yet almost always shows up in larger team games, due to it being ridiculously expensive yet actually worth it when you actually get to it.

    I'd just like the factory to be cheap... enough for units to be used in a 1v1. Something like double a t1 factory or so. Cheager t1 units as well as more expensive units. This would mean the factory could have a slower build rate which even means the more expensive t2 units can take a decent amount of time to be produced. (Which alallows build time to be apart of balance more so than now.)
  11. burntcustard

    burntcustard Post Master General

    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    1,312
    I think we're getting a bit off topic ^^ basically I mostly disagree again, BUT, the T2 factory should certainly be a liiiittle easier to obtain in 1v1s. I think having the T2 fabber be a bit tougher so it doesn't instantly die when it gets tickled could help make T2 more "secure", so that people have more of a reason to do it in 1v1s, and the T2 units being a tiny bit more cost effective, (especially air and Vanguards, or not Vanguards if Pelicans go back to T1), or T1 units being made a tiny bit worse. Most importantly, if T1 fabbers were less **** and energy wasn't so limiting early on for build power, then that could help ease the transition to T2 from T1, because you could have more build power to build it quicker, rather than the most "efficient" thing to do being spamming units.

    Back to the unit cannon: If it was made a lot cheaper, then it might have to have it's ability to build T2 fabbers removed (to stop it being used to tech up instead of normal T2 factories), and that would be a shame because it would make firing 24 T2 fabbers out of 2 unit cannons to near-insta-build a Halley to smash someones own planet not possible D:
    xankar likes this.
  12. philoscience

    philoscience Post Master General

    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    1,048
    Just want everyone to know @maldor96 was nice enough to create a weaker/cheaper unit cannon mini mod. Go test it out!

    https://forums.uberent.com/threads/wip-maldors-mini-mods.64495/#post-1053073
    thetrophysystem likes this.
  13. mot9001

    mot9001 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    650
    I think the unit cannon is balanced pretty decently as it is in vanilla.
    igncom1 likes this.
  14. philoscience

    philoscience Post Master General

    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    1,048
    Have you tried some games with the new mini-mod? I won't have time this week but I really want to compare it.
  15. Geers

    Geers Post Master General

    Messages:
    6,946
    Likes Received:
    6,821
    I am so exploiting this.
  16. pagabumba

    pagabumba New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    8
    Well, a good strategy is to drop a nuclear bomb in a well-defended area in order to sweep anti-orbital defenses, then spam units with 5-6 cannons. This strategy is pretty easy to achieve and if you are able to find a weak spot in your foe base, it's GG. It's not a good strategy in 1v1 single planet match for its cost in terms of resources and time.
  17. drrobotussin

    drrobotussin New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    3
    I agree for the most part. I would probably make them produce slammers a bit longer though.
  18. kite1024

    kite1024 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    The unit cannon seems perfect as it is right now, price is also perfect. Right now, interplanetary transports are still feasable compared to the unit cannon. If you make it cheaper then it already is you can scrap the orbital transporter midgame (just one for com).
  19. cybrankrogoth

    cybrankrogoth Active Member

    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    57
    If any change is made to the unit cannon. I'd vote for the following.

    leave the price as it is.
    Increase storage pod capacity.
    Increase construction speed of units.
    Increase metal to match increase construction speed.
    Increase energy consumption further.

    In all, make it much more energy expensive to use, but much more effective.
    So that we aren't spamming a gazillion unit cannons and waiting a gazillion years just to get an invading army on target planet.

Share This Page